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hello everyone and

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this is our second segment of the

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evening uh thank you for

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uh finding us over here uh i'm really

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excited about

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our guests in this segment we may go a

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little bit longer i'm not really sure

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but uh for right now i'm going to bring

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in uh first i'm going to bring in irene

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priven who's actually

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hi irene how are you again hello good

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morning how are you

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good morning yes actually you're in the

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future from us

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uh good morning uh so you connected me

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to ross so i'd like for you to introduce

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him if you would

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how's that oh okay well um

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for any uh viewer over in the united

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states you may not know

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uh that ross is i consider him

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australia's ralph blumenthal or carl

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bernstein he's a highly um

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respected investigative journalist with

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a long career

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he's a household name here in australia

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due to his

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association as being i believe the front

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man for 60 minutes for over 20 years i

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think it is

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he can correct me on that when he comes

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on um he's lent weight

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lightly to the topic of uaps or ufos and

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brought it into the mainstream

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um which is very important for australia

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because um

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generally when any uh ufo topic comes on

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it's usually something quite

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controversial or

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a little bit um unbelievable to the

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regular viewer

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and yet regularly um they use

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um x-files music

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and um they smirk after the segment now

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this has happened once with ross in

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breakfast television

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that i've seen they brought on the

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x-files music but he's

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transformed their response to um

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looking uncomfortable so uncomfortable

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glances at each other

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after he has put on uh provided his um

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information he's um yeah we're very

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happy that in australia that he's

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bringing it out into the open because

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it is less open here as i've said before

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than the united states to talk about

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the uap or ufo phenomenon so

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um yeah with that yeah he's brought a

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documentary which was on primetime tv

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and it's made quite a buzz

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and also he's brought out a book which

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you'll be talking to him about i

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imagine at great lengths yes

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and here he is welcome to the show ross

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it's pleasure to be here

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yes and you're telling me you are

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getting flooded with emails

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i love it um how can you keep up do you

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try to answer i know it took you a

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little while to answer mine

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but uh look i've just been overwhelmed i

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mean i'm very gratified to be honest

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journo's love journalists love engaging

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with their audience if they're a good

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journalist it's fun

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the difficulty that i've got is i have

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thousands and thousands of messages from

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people

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who are genuinely excited and interested

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in engaging with me there are a lot of

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people offering information

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i've had an astonishing number of people

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from the military the

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you know defense and intelligence area

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and the air force

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civilian pilots and i'm slowly working

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through the material but

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every time i try and start watching and

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reading these emails

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blacks like you ring me up and want to

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do an interview with me so

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i've just had to put them on the shelf

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but i do promise everybody that when i

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can i will get to them and i will

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respond

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each to each individual message well i

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was rather gratified to hear that you've

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actually

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watched my show a number of times just

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to uh juice your do your research

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and absolutely yeah no it's you i'm i'm

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i'm a big listener to a lot of podcasts

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yours included

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i think you can't really begin to make

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advances in this area until you fully

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understand the subject and

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i'm grateful to people like irene in

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melbourne and james rigney in melbourne

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there's a bunch of

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ufo people in australia who've taken me

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under their wing

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and very kindly brought me into the fold

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and

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educated me about what i think is quite

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a phenomenal body of evidence both

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in australia and internationally to

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warrant taking

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this subject seriously absolutely

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and just just as a side note i i say

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this um

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often when i have someone from australia

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on but australia is like my

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of uh listeners to this show

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is usually second or third in the entire

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world and you only have like 25 or 26

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million people there

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which is amazing look i'm taken aback

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actually by the extent

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of informed interest um

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one of the things that i think has

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traditionally made the subject

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of ufos uaps taboo in

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australia at least is is the simple fact

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that

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people like me who have a reasonable

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profile as journalists you do tend to

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get a lot of people contacting you with

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some

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really strange odd

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off-the-wall stuff but what's

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interesting to me is that the people who

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contacted me about the ufo

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unidentified aerial phenomena issue

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they're often very

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very scientific very well informed

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they've done their homework

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that they've got detail and my initial

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journalistic skepticism that i'm about

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to deal with somebody who's a little bit

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odd

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is soon dispelled because there's a

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there's a real rigor

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there and i'm heartened by it because

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we do have like you do in the united

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states a culture of

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organizations that have been researching

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this phenomenon for

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many many years i i'm a little bit

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uncomfortable with the ufo term because

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it's such a loaded

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term people talk about ufo and i really

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think fundamentally they're talking

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about

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extraterrestrials flying sources aliens

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i'm more interested in the phenomenon

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the unidentified

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aerial phenomenon and uap frankly

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doesn't even do it for me either because

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one of the things that i'm getting a lot

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of information about since i started

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talking about what i'm aware of here in

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australia

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and in the pacific and the indian ocean

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is usos

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underwater submerged objects and

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if you like i can take you there but

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there's also the issues of

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objects that are being seen in orbit and

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this is where australia plays such a key

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role with our main

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five eyes american ally uh you guys have

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got these gigantic bases here in

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australia the

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pine gap the joint facility with

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australia

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and there's an enormous amount of

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material that's picked up in orbit that

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frankly remains top secret unless it's

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talked about by friendly people who've

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been talking to me

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when you say in orbit do you mean like

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coming through the orbit or do you mean

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actually orbiting well i'll give you one

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example uh there's a guy

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who is named in the wikileaks emails

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of the dnc database that were leaked by

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the russian gru

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to julian assange's wikileaks funny how

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it's all australians isn't it

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and it's really interesting because in

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those emails and i think it's been

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largely overlooked

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by people doing research in the united

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states there's a lovely guy called

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bob fish who's an ex aerospace

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communications contractor with very high

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top secret sci clearances and uh he was

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contacting podesta basically talking

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about

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objects that he was aware of he'd seen

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the telemetry data for these objects

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that had come in

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from deep space and passed in front of

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the

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dsp defense support

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program satellites so i contacted bob

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because nobody

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had and i was fascinated because he

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hadn't been interviewed yet and he had

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so much to say it's a really interesting

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guy

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who who during his time in the service

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very strong patriot somebody who wasn't

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going to tell me information that

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in any way compromised national security

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issues for america but

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he wanted pedestrian he wanted me and he

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wanted

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you guys to know that there are objects

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that are frequently seen

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in space that come he says he saw

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particular telemetry for one object

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which came in from

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deep space from behind a dsp satellite

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at very high speed then it noticeably

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changed speed it slowed its velocity

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changed course and then it vectored

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again

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into earth's atmosphere now that's not

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any known

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space object that's not space junk

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that's not a meteor

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meteors don't change course they don't

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change velocity

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it's unexplained and bob was basically

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saying that these are issues that should

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really be being discussed and

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acknowledged

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well absolutely um you remember of the

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movie

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independence day they start they

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start the movie out saying you know this

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object

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is coming in from deep space into

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you know toward our orbit now uh the

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only reason i'm bringing this

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up is when something like this happens

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you would think that the defense

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department this seems like a defense

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situation or possible

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you know we have no idea what that is

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coming in

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through the orbit toward earth

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it seems like we'd be readying for you

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know an attack or something

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but it's just a commonplace look i don't

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know why we

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all in our movies our popular culture

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perceives

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something not human of intelligent

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technological origin

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we tend to see it as a threat and i

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think we've been acculturated like that

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because

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our movies uh popular culture has told

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us that we should

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but frankly it struck me in the course

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of all of this and

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many of the people that i've spoken to

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in your

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defence and intelligence area have

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flatly said to me that

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if this is extraterrestrial if this is

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intelligent non-terrestrial technology

286
00:10:17,670 --> 00:10:15,200
it's so advanced whatever whoever

287
00:10:19,350 --> 00:10:17,680
this technology represents in terms of

288
00:10:21,110 --> 00:10:19,360
the civilization

289
00:10:22,630 --> 00:10:21,120
frankly they could have wiped us out

290
00:10:25,030 --> 00:10:22,640
years ago if they'd wanted to

291
00:10:26,630 --> 00:10:25,040
i mean i don't absolutely you know i

292
00:10:28,790 --> 00:10:26,640
must confess if anything i'm more

293
00:10:31,230 --> 00:10:28,800
inclined to the perception that if this

294
00:10:33,910 --> 00:10:31,240
is an intelligence if this is

295
00:10:36,310 --> 00:10:33,920
extraterrestrial or intra-terrestrial or

296
00:10:38,710 --> 00:10:36,320
inter-dimensional

297
00:10:39,350 --> 00:10:38,720
whatever whoever it is the entities the

298
00:10:41,750 --> 00:10:39,360
living

299
00:10:43,590 --> 00:10:41,760
entities behind it are benevolently

300
00:10:47,350 --> 00:10:43,600
inclined

301
00:10:51,350 --> 00:10:47,360
so far yes um

302
00:10:53,670 --> 00:10:51,360
what about um this whole thing

303
00:10:55,110 --> 00:10:53,680
made you start looking into it i mean

304
00:10:56,310 --> 00:10:55,120
something must have happened was it the

305
00:10:59,750 --> 00:10:56,320
new york times article

306
00:11:02,470 --> 00:10:59,760
what what what made you decide

307
00:11:03,030 --> 00:11:02,480
i i'd long been interested i mean one of

308
00:11:05,430 --> 00:11:03,040
the

309
00:11:06,550 --> 00:11:05,440
things that fascinates me in journalism

310
00:11:09,910 --> 00:11:06,560
is

311
00:11:13,110 --> 00:11:09,920
there are prescribed taboos

312
00:11:13,509 --> 00:11:13,120
in journalism the areas that you don't

313
00:11:16,389 --> 00:11:13,519
go

314
00:11:17,110 --> 00:11:16,399
areas that you don't cover and i i guess

315
00:11:21,430 --> 00:11:17,120
i'm

316
00:11:23,190 --> 00:11:21,440
correctness that defines a lot of

317
00:11:25,509 --> 00:11:23,200
conventional mainstream journalism you

318
00:11:28,470 --> 00:11:25,519
know you're told by editors by executive

319
00:11:30,710 --> 00:11:28,480
producers of tv shows radio stations

320
00:11:32,069 --> 00:11:30,720
these are areas we don't do you know and

321
00:11:34,550 --> 00:11:32,079
and it's not because somebody's

322
00:11:36,150 --> 00:11:34,560
slapping a um a confidentiality order

323
00:11:37,910 --> 00:11:36,160
there's not men in that black sitting in

324
00:11:39,030 --> 00:11:37,920
the newsroom saying you can't cover

325
00:11:41,590 --> 00:11:39,040
stories

326
00:11:42,310 --> 00:11:41,600
but what what there is is a cultural

327
00:11:45,269 --> 00:11:42,320
attitude

328
00:11:45,829 --> 00:11:45,279
that ufos are a taboo they're a stigma

329
00:11:49,990 --> 00:11:45,839
they're

330
00:11:50,550 --> 00:11:50,000
be ignored and i was always fascinated

331
00:11:53,190 --> 00:11:50,560
by that

332
00:11:54,470 --> 00:11:53,200
because in my time in journalism i've

333
00:11:57,829 --> 00:11:54,480
worked in newspapers

334
00:12:00,550 --> 00:11:57,839
radio tv there's been

335
00:12:01,509 --> 00:12:00,560
many many viewers listeners who've

336
00:12:03,750 --> 00:12:01,519
contacted

337
00:12:05,430 --> 00:12:03,760
me in the newsroom to basically say look

338
00:12:07,590 --> 00:12:05,440
there's a really interesting story here

339
00:12:08,389 --> 00:12:07,600
about ufos why aren't you investigating

340
00:12:11,670 --> 00:12:08,399
it

341
00:12:13,829 --> 00:12:11,680
and the default is

342
00:12:15,430 --> 00:12:13,839
of a certain generation of person who

343
00:12:17,350 --> 00:12:15,440
are essentially the management of these

344
00:12:18,790 --> 00:12:17,360
organizations is to go you know what

345
00:12:20,790 --> 00:12:18,800
it's just throw it in the bin

346
00:12:24,230 --> 00:12:20,800
ross don't waste time with it

347
00:12:27,590 --> 00:12:24,240
and i've seen this happen i as a news

348
00:12:29,829 --> 00:12:27,600
room chief of staff in a newspaper at

349
00:12:31,590 --> 00:12:29,839
one stage when i was a younger man

350
00:12:33,750 --> 00:12:31,600
on a sunday i can remember a woman

351
00:12:36,550 --> 00:12:33,760
ringing up saying she had a photograph

352
00:12:37,670 --> 00:12:36,560
of a craft that was hovering over

353
00:12:40,870 --> 00:12:37,680
western sydney

354
00:12:42,870 --> 00:12:40,880
parramatta a big suburb in sydney

355
00:12:43,829 --> 00:12:42,880
and i thought wow that's really

356
00:12:44,949 --> 00:12:43,839
interesting i'd love to see the

357
00:12:50,629 --> 00:12:44,959
photograph

358
00:12:51,990 --> 00:12:50,639
to me i'd i'd spoken to the news editor

359
00:12:53,350 --> 00:12:52,000
of the newspaper to say hey listen

360
00:12:54,550 --> 00:12:53,360
there's this woman who's contacted us

361
00:12:55,670 --> 00:12:54,560
who reckons she's got this great

362
00:12:57,910 --> 00:12:55,680
photograph

363
00:12:59,030 --> 00:12:57,920
and his first response was to treat it

364
00:13:02,069 --> 00:12:59,040
as a piss take

365
00:13:03,509 --> 00:13:02,079
um to treat it with ridicule not to

366
00:13:05,829 --> 00:13:03,519
engage with it

367
00:13:06,629 --> 00:13:05,839
there's a kind of a default stigma that

368
00:13:08,710 --> 00:13:06,639
i find

369
00:13:11,670 --> 00:13:08,720
bewildering and there are a few stories

370
00:13:15,190 --> 00:13:11,680
of that type in journalism but

371
00:13:19,190 --> 00:13:15,200
probably no greater taboo than

372
00:13:21,350 --> 00:13:19,200
ufos and i don't think it's justified

373
00:13:22,870 --> 00:13:21,360
frankly i mean i know

374
00:13:24,230 --> 00:13:22,880
and i have to be careful how i phrase

375
00:13:24,790 --> 00:13:24,240
this because some people have taken

376
00:13:27,509 --> 00:13:24,800
insult

377
00:13:29,030 --> 00:13:27,519
unintentionally conveyed i i promise you

378
00:13:30,069 --> 00:13:29,040
there are some people who are mentally

379
00:13:32,310 --> 00:13:30,079
ill out there who

380
00:13:34,069 --> 00:13:32,320
who in their psychosis basically seize

381
00:13:36,790 --> 00:13:34,079
upon ufos and the mystery

382
00:13:38,470 --> 00:13:36,800
of ufos and and associate themselves

383
00:13:39,430 --> 00:13:38,480
with the phenomenon i'm not saying that

384
00:13:42,710 --> 00:13:39,440
everybody who

385
00:13:46,150 --> 00:13:42,720
who sees these objects are crazy um

386
00:13:47,990 --> 00:13:46,160
but what there is i think is a totally

387
00:13:49,829 --> 00:13:48,000
unwarranted stigma that's out of all

388
00:13:50,550 --> 00:13:49,839
proportion to the legitimacy of the

389
00:13:52,629 --> 00:13:50,560
issue

390
00:13:55,750 --> 00:13:52,639
that means that the media is generally

391
00:13:57,910 --> 00:13:55,760
wary of even engaging with the subject

392
00:13:59,910 --> 00:13:57,920
and the reason i started getting

393
00:14:03,750 --> 00:13:59,920
interested is because

394
00:14:05,189 --> 00:14:03,760
at key times in my career i i'm

395
00:14:07,590 --> 00:14:05,199
i don't like the term investigative

396
00:14:10,069 --> 00:14:07,600
journalist because all journalism

397
00:14:11,430 --> 00:14:10,079
should be by definition investigative

398
00:14:13,829 --> 00:14:11,440
but one of the

399
00:14:15,590 --> 00:14:13,839
one of the problems these days is that

400
00:14:18,629 --> 00:14:15,600
media tend to think

401
00:14:21,269 --> 00:14:18,639
like a pack they tend to follow

402
00:14:23,189 --> 00:14:21,279
each other and if you go against that

403
00:14:24,870 --> 00:14:23,199
pack and basically take a view that's

404
00:14:27,269 --> 00:14:24,880
contrarian or different

405
00:14:29,269 --> 00:14:27,279
you tend to get knocked on the head i

406
00:14:30,150 --> 00:14:29,279
mean one of the debates that's occurring

407
00:14:32,230 --> 00:14:30,160
here in australia

408
00:14:34,150 --> 00:14:32,240
at the moment is the efficacy of the

409
00:14:35,350 --> 00:14:34,160
government's efforts to deal with covert

410
00:14:37,590 --> 00:14:35,360
19.

411
00:14:39,110 --> 00:14:37,600
and a lot of renegade economists for

412
00:14:42,389 --> 00:14:39,120
example are arguing that

413
00:14:46,310 --> 00:14:42,399
frankly the the the

414
00:14:48,069 --> 00:14:46,320
benefits of fighting the vaccine

415
00:14:49,829 --> 00:14:48,079
are essentially outweighed by the

416
00:14:50,949 --> 00:14:49,839
incredible damage that's caused to the

417
00:14:52,710 --> 00:14:50,959
economy and that

418
00:14:55,110 --> 00:14:52,720
you know the number of people dying

419
00:14:57,189 --> 00:14:55,120
don't justify the extent of government

420
00:14:59,030 --> 00:14:57,199
involvement in our personal liberties

421
00:15:01,430 --> 00:14:59,040
and frankly i think it's a debate that

422
00:15:01,990 --> 00:15:01,440
should be healthily had in any democracy

423
00:15:03,910 --> 00:15:02,000
but

424
00:15:05,990 --> 00:15:03,920
there's a stigma being attached to the

425
00:15:07,910 --> 00:15:06,000
issue and there's the usual gatekeepers

426
00:15:08,230 --> 00:15:07,920
in the media who are basically slamming

427
00:15:10,470 --> 00:15:08,240
down

428
00:15:11,750 --> 00:15:10,480
on the issue and saying you can't talk

429
00:15:13,509 --> 00:15:11,760
about that you know we all have to

430
00:15:15,990 --> 00:15:13,519
present a unified front to assist the

431
00:15:18,069 --> 00:15:16,000
government in combating covert 19.

432
00:15:20,230 --> 00:15:18,079
but that's not our role in media our

433
00:15:23,670 --> 00:15:20,240
role in media is to question

434
00:15:25,350 --> 00:15:23,680
probe right look look for contradictions

435
00:15:27,269 --> 00:15:25,360
look for inconsistencies and that's

436
00:15:28,230 --> 00:15:27,279
where the ufo phenomenon comes in

437
00:15:30,389 --> 00:15:28,240
because

438
00:15:32,230 --> 00:15:30,399
at different times in my career i'm

439
00:15:33,590 --> 00:15:32,240
aware now that i look back i've been

440
00:15:35,590 --> 00:15:33,600
presented with

441
00:15:37,110 --> 00:15:35,600
evidence to show that i should be

442
00:15:40,470 --> 00:15:37,120
engaging with it and i

443
00:15:44,870 --> 00:15:40,480
i've tried to do i've tried to do

444
00:15:46,470 --> 00:15:44,880
um uh digs in the past but generally

445
00:15:47,110 --> 00:15:46,480
i've come up against recalcitrant

446
00:15:48,790 --> 00:15:47,120
editors

447
00:15:50,790 --> 00:15:48,800
and and that's the issue there is this

448
00:15:53,189 --> 00:15:50,800
taboo

449
00:15:57,430 --> 00:15:53,199
interesting irene you have a question do

450
00:16:01,829 --> 00:15:59,350
you gotta unmute your mic irene on mute

451
00:16:05,030 --> 00:16:03,509
oh yes thank you i think it's

452
00:16:06,710 --> 00:16:05,040
interesting what you're saying about

453
00:16:08,069 --> 00:16:06,720
what's going on in the back rooms of the

454
00:16:10,069 --> 00:16:08,079
news

455
00:16:12,389 --> 00:16:10,079
media because the perception i guess in

456
00:16:15,509 --> 00:16:12,399
the ufo community is that

457
00:16:16,150 --> 00:16:15,519
um there is there are agents at work

458
00:16:19,430 --> 00:16:16,160
that

459
00:16:20,230 --> 00:16:19,440
um work behind the scenes to to cover

460
00:16:23,509 --> 00:16:20,240
this up

461
00:16:25,189 --> 00:16:23,519
uh since you have been um on this topic

462
00:16:27,910 --> 00:16:25,199
what has been the reception from your

463
00:16:30,150 --> 00:16:27,920
peers and um other respected journalists

464
00:16:32,550 --> 00:16:30,160
behind the scenes do you know i've been

465
00:16:34,310 --> 00:16:32,560
waiting irene for some snide journalist

466
00:16:35,990 --> 00:16:34,320
to go oh bloody cool that what's he

467
00:16:37,990 --> 00:16:36,000
doing you know he's gone crazy

468
00:16:39,590 --> 00:16:38,000
become a tinfoil hat looney i mean i've

469
00:16:40,870 --> 00:16:39,600
had none of that um

470
00:16:43,269 --> 00:16:40,880
i've been really i've been really

471
00:16:44,230 --> 00:16:43,279
gratified i'm a member of a group called

472
00:16:46,150 --> 00:16:44,240
the international

473
00:16:47,269 --> 00:16:46,160
consortium of investigative journalists

474
00:16:49,110 --> 00:16:47,279
which is um

475
00:16:50,949 --> 00:16:49,120
a collaborative group of investigative

476
00:16:53,189 --> 00:16:50,959
journalists all over the world

477
00:16:55,189 --> 00:16:53,199
who share information we worked on

478
00:16:57,110 --> 00:16:55,199
things like the the panama papers and

479
00:16:58,870 --> 00:16:57,120
the tobacco papers and

480
00:17:00,389 --> 00:16:58,880
the idea is to do cross-border

481
00:17:02,470 --> 00:17:00,399
investigations and

482
00:17:04,230 --> 00:17:02,480
in the last few weeks because my books

483
00:17:04,630 --> 00:17:04,240
generated a bit of publicity in that

484
00:17:06,549 --> 00:17:04,640
group

485
00:17:08,150 --> 00:17:06,559
but also the documentaries being

486
00:17:10,390 --> 00:17:08,160
bootlegged all around the world

487
00:17:11,350 --> 00:17:10,400
illegally by people who flogged it off

488
00:17:12,870 --> 00:17:11,360
channel 7

489
00:17:15,590 --> 00:17:12,880
the network i made it with here in

490
00:17:18,069 --> 00:17:15,600
australia i'm getting a lot of journals

491
00:17:21,029 --> 00:17:18,079
contacting me from britain the us

492
00:17:22,390 --> 00:17:21,039
europe i had a german guy this morning

493
00:17:23,990 --> 00:17:22,400
and it's really interesting because

494
00:17:26,949 --> 00:17:24,000
they're all

495
00:17:28,390 --> 00:17:26,959
i think feeling more willing to engage

496
00:17:30,070 --> 00:17:28,400
because one of their colleagues is

497
00:17:31,909 --> 00:17:30,080
actually saying look you know this is

498
00:17:33,510 --> 00:17:31,919
this is for real this is serious we

499
00:17:35,350 --> 00:17:33,520
should be looking at this

500
00:17:36,950 --> 00:17:35,360
and i i think in many ways what's

501
00:17:37,750 --> 00:17:36,960
happening at the moment the dam is

502
00:17:40,549 --> 00:17:37,760
breaking

503
00:17:41,110 --> 00:17:40,559
uh there has been this taboo for no good

504
00:17:43,990 --> 00:17:41,120
reason

505
00:17:45,990 --> 00:17:44,000
frankly i mean i think martin and irene

506
00:17:48,310 --> 00:17:46,000
you both know that to get your brain

507
00:17:49,990 --> 00:17:48,320
around this issue to actually understand

508
00:17:51,110 --> 00:17:50,000
the points and the significance of the

509
00:17:52,950 --> 00:17:51,120
evidence you actually do

510
00:17:54,950 --> 00:17:52,960
need to do a lot of reading a lot of

511
00:17:56,710 --> 00:17:54,960
listening and a lot of viewing

512
00:17:59,590 --> 00:17:56,720
and that takes time and a lot of

513
00:18:01,750 --> 00:17:59,600
journalists don't have that time anymore

514
00:18:03,110 --> 00:18:01,760
we're operating in journalism at a time

515
00:18:05,590 --> 00:18:03,120
when there is a diminution in the

516
00:18:07,350 --> 00:18:05,600
resources that are going to the media

517
00:18:09,270 --> 00:18:07,360
and the only reason i've been able to

518
00:18:10,950 --> 00:18:09,280
write this book and make the documentary

519
00:18:13,430 --> 00:18:10,960
that i've made is i

520
00:18:14,789 --> 00:18:13,440
i essentially stepped back from

521
00:18:17,510 --> 00:18:14,799
day-to-day

522
00:18:18,470 --> 00:18:17,520
news making and i've essentially thrown

523
00:18:20,789 --> 00:18:18,480
myself

524
00:18:22,070 --> 00:18:20,799
with the help of an advance from

525
00:18:25,110 --> 00:18:22,080
harpercollins

526
00:18:26,549 --> 00:18:25,120
international i was able to throw myself

527
00:18:28,710 --> 00:18:26,559
for two plus years

528
00:18:30,230 --> 00:18:28,720
into doing nothing else than digging

529
00:18:32,150 --> 00:18:30,240
into this issue

530
00:18:33,750 --> 00:18:32,160
and frankly a lot of journalists don't

531
00:18:34,470 --> 00:18:33,760
have that time they don't have the

532
00:18:36,950 --> 00:18:34,480
resources

533
00:18:38,470 --> 00:18:36,960
there's you know even major newspapers

534
00:18:40,390 --> 00:18:38,480
like the new york times

535
00:18:41,510 --> 00:18:40,400
uh they've got increasingly less

536
00:18:43,990 --> 00:18:41,520
resources to do

537
00:18:45,029 --> 00:18:44,000
investigative journalism and i've

538
00:18:48,310 --> 00:18:45,039
discovered that

539
00:18:49,430 --> 00:18:48,320
for my position in life i'm nearly 60

540
00:18:52,870 --> 00:18:49,440
years old

541
00:18:53,270 --> 00:18:52,880
i'm i'm you know financially secure i

542
00:18:57,270 --> 00:18:53,280
can

543
00:19:00,310 --> 00:18:57,280
actually dig and do something

544
00:19:02,150 --> 00:19:00,320
uh in in a longer form and very few

545
00:19:05,350 --> 00:19:02,160
journalists have that opportunity

546
00:19:08,230 --> 00:19:05,360
it's an incredibly rare thing i

547
00:19:09,110 --> 00:19:08,240
i bet irene you want to follow up oh

548
00:19:11,590 --> 00:19:09,120
just a quick one

549
00:19:12,549 --> 00:19:11,600
um i noticed or we all noticed that you

550
00:19:14,470 --> 00:19:12,559
called your

551
00:19:16,470 --> 00:19:14,480
uh well you didn't call the documentary

552
00:19:19,430 --> 00:19:16,480
the phenomenon it was decided i think

553
00:19:20,710 --> 00:19:19,440
by a producer is that right and was it

554
00:19:23,110 --> 00:19:20,720
was it confusing

555
00:19:23,990 --> 00:19:23,120
um for the international audience um

556
00:19:27,830 --> 00:19:24,000
between well

557
00:19:30,630 --> 00:19:27,840
i mean firstly i'd apologize um to um

558
00:19:31,110 --> 00:19:30,640
uh my illustrious colleague who also

559
00:19:33,510 --> 00:19:31,120
called

560
00:19:34,390 --> 00:19:33,520
his uh movie the phenomenon that's james

561
00:19:37,190 --> 00:19:34,400
fox

562
00:19:38,950 --> 00:19:37,200
and um we actually i at my instigation

563
00:19:40,549 --> 00:19:38,960
the moment that i saw they'd called it

564
00:19:42,950 --> 00:19:40,559
the phenomenon i said look

565
00:19:44,870 --> 00:19:42,960
change the title immediately to the ufo

566
00:19:46,150 --> 00:19:44,880
phenomenon so this is a distinction from

567
00:19:50,070 --> 00:19:46,160
james's film

568
00:19:51,830 --> 00:19:50,080
um frankly i think the uh the bosses at

569
00:19:54,070 --> 00:19:51,840
channel 7 in australia who made that

570
00:19:56,230 --> 00:19:54,080
decision just did it on the fly frankly

571
00:19:57,510 --> 00:19:56,240
like most things are in edit suite at

572
00:19:59,990 --> 00:19:57,520
the last minute

573
00:20:01,909 --> 00:20:00,000
um i was hoping they'd call it in plain

574
00:20:04,149 --> 00:20:01,919
sight which is the name of my book

575
00:20:06,470 --> 00:20:04,159
which has just been released by the way

576
00:20:10,070 --> 00:20:06,480
in australia and will be released

577
00:20:11,909 --> 00:20:10,080
in the us uh in october um

578
00:20:13,590 --> 00:20:11,919
in print form it's in kindle form at the

579
00:20:15,750 --> 00:20:13,600
moment but um

580
00:20:17,830 --> 00:20:15,760
uh yeah i mean essentially when you're

581
00:20:19,510 --> 00:20:17,840
collaborating with tv networks like i

582
00:20:22,630 --> 00:20:19,520
was to make that film you don't

583
00:20:25,990 --> 00:20:22,640
really have a lot of control over the

584
00:20:28,630 --> 00:20:26,000
um the sort of the the artwork and the

585
00:20:29,190 --> 00:20:28,640
the titles that they use for promotion

586
00:20:32,470 --> 00:20:29,200
and so

587
00:20:33,350 --> 00:20:32,480
um uh yeah my sincere apologies to james

588
00:20:35,190 --> 00:20:33,360
fox

589
00:20:37,110 --> 00:20:35,200
because um i certainly wasn't trying to

590
00:20:41,830 --> 00:20:37,120
steal his thunder

591
00:20:43,510 --> 00:20:41,840
yeah great um so i have a question here

592
00:20:45,430 --> 00:20:43,520
uh by the way i wish i had your voice

593
00:20:46,549 --> 00:20:45,440
you have a great voice well that's very

594
00:20:49,990 --> 00:20:46,559
cool radio thank you

595
00:20:52,070 --> 00:20:50,000
yeah uh as far as you said you you

596
00:20:52,310 --> 00:20:52,080
really dug in for a couple of years and

597
00:20:59,029 --> 00:20:52,320
i

598
00:21:02,149 --> 00:20:59,039
able to

599
00:21:04,230 --> 00:21:02,159
get places that the average person can't

600
00:21:06,310 --> 00:21:04,240
get and get information

601
00:21:08,070 --> 00:21:06,320
that we can't get you know in the ufo

602
00:21:09,110 --> 00:21:08,080
community can you elaborate on some of

603
00:21:12,630 --> 00:21:09,120
that

604
00:21:14,149 --> 00:21:12,640
yeah sure i mean mainstream journalism

605
00:21:16,310 --> 00:21:14,159
a lot of people misunderstand this they

606
00:21:19,190 --> 00:21:16,320
get really frustrated i've had people in

607
00:21:19,909 --> 00:21:19,200
recent days sending the frankly abusive

608
00:21:21,909 --> 00:21:19,919
messages

609
00:21:23,270 --> 00:21:21,919
on social media saying i should reveal

610
00:21:25,669 --> 00:21:23,280
all my sources

611
00:21:26,950 --> 00:21:25,679
and they're just surprised they're just

612
00:21:28,310 --> 00:21:26,960
efforts i mean i'm sorry i've got no

613
00:21:30,789 --> 00:21:28,320
time for people like that they don't

614
00:21:31,590 --> 00:21:30,799
understand journalism it's absolutely

615
00:21:34,070 --> 00:21:31,600
fundamental

616
00:21:36,070 --> 00:21:34,080
in journalism that journalists protect

617
00:21:38,070 --> 00:21:36,080
their sources and you know i'll

618
00:21:39,830 --> 00:21:38,080
happily happily go to jail to protect a

619
00:21:40,630 --> 00:21:39,840
source even if i'm being ordered by a

620
00:21:42,549 --> 00:21:40,640
judge to

621
00:21:43,830 --> 00:21:42,559
reveal the name of that confidential

622
00:21:46,470 --> 00:21:43,840
source

623
00:21:47,909 --> 00:21:46,480
won't happily do it but i will do it and

624
00:21:49,590 --> 00:21:47,919
in this case

625
00:21:51,190 --> 00:21:49,600
when i started out on this issue i've

626
00:21:54,310 --> 00:21:51,200
already done a lot of stories

627
00:21:56,789 --> 00:21:54,320
on intelligence national security i've

628
00:21:58,950 --> 00:21:56,799
covered a lot of terrorism stories

629
00:22:00,149 --> 00:21:58,960
defense i've i've embedded with your

630
00:22:03,430 --> 00:22:00,159
military forces in

631
00:22:06,470 --> 00:22:03,440
iraq afghanistan probably

632
00:22:07,029 --> 00:22:06,480
the best area for connections that i

633
00:22:09,029 --> 00:22:07,039
made

634
00:22:11,190 --> 00:22:09,039
in the defence and intelligence area in

635
00:22:14,870 --> 00:22:11,200
the united states came because

636
00:22:17,669 --> 00:22:14,880
i did a big investigation into the

637
00:22:18,710 --> 00:22:17,679
dirty bank the nugent hand bank which

638
00:22:21,510 --> 00:22:18,720
was a corrupt

639
00:22:22,870 --> 00:22:21,520
cia front bank that was essentially

640
00:22:25,590 --> 00:22:22,880
laundering drug money

641
00:22:26,549 --> 00:22:25,600
from the sales of heroin in southeast

642
00:22:28,549 --> 00:22:26,559
asia

643
00:22:30,789 --> 00:22:28,559
and it was being it was set up in sydney

644
00:22:32,310 --> 00:22:30,799
it was incredible that this bank existed

645
00:22:34,549 --> 00:22:32,320
in the late 70s

646
00:22:35,830 --> 00:22:34,559
and there was a green beret called mike

647
00:22:38,870 --> 00:22:35,840
hand who

648
00:22:40,870 --> 00:22:38,880
um a decorated and very well respected

649
00:22:42,630 --> 00:22:40,880
soldier but he became a covert operative

650
00:22:45,750 --> 00:22:42,640
for the cia

651
00:22:46,470 --> 00:22:45,760
and he set up what was clearly we can

652
00:22:49,510 --> 00:22:46,480
all say now

653
00:22:52,149 --> 00:22:49,520
a front bank for the for the agency that

654
00:22:54,470 --> 00:22:52,159
essentially operated as a dirty money

655
00:22:55,590 --> 00:22:54,480
laundering for organized crime in

656
00:22:57,270 --> 00:22:55,600
australia

657
00:22:58,630 --> 00:22:57,280
and it did all the things wrong that

658
00:22:59,909 --> 00:22:58,640
essentially brought it to the attention

659
00:23:02,549 --> 00:22:59,919
of police in australia

660
00:23:03,110 --> 00:23:02,559
and eventually handed it a runner his

661
00:23:05,350 --> 00:23:03,120
colleague

662
00:23:08,149 --> 00:23:05,360
frank neugen died mysteriously with a

663
00:23:08,630 --> 00:23:08,159
gunshot wound to the head in his car and

664
00:23:23,990 --> 00:23:08,640
i

665
00:23:25,990 --> 00:23:24,000
to um

666
00:23:27,590 --> 00:23:26,000
i'm not going to say his new name or

667
00:23:29,110 --> 00:23:27,600
where he is because you know he's a

668
00:23:31,430 --> 00:23:29,120
former intelligence operative and

669
00:23:33,190 --> 00:23:31,440
deserves to be left alone i figure

670
00:23:35,750 --> 00:23:33,200
but essentially he was clearly being

671
00:23:37,669 --> 00:23:35,760
protected by the agency and even though

672
00:23:39,750 --> 00:23:37,679
he was a known fugitive wanted under

673
00:23:41,190 --> 00:23:39,760
warrant by the australian police

674
00:23:43,350 --> 00:23:41,200
nothing ever happened when we did the

675
00:23:44,950 --> 00:23:43,360
story and i eventually was able with the

676
00:23:47,350 --> 00:23:44,960
assistance of a very

677
00:23:48,390 --> 00:23:47,360
clever researcher here in australia we

678
00:23:50,149 --> 00:23:48,400
obtained

679
00:23:52,070 --> 00:23:50,159
files from our government's national

680
00:23:54,390 --> 00:23:52,080
archives which showed that

681
00:23:56,549 --> 00:23:54,400
he worked for the agency after he'd fled

682
00:23:59,110 --> 00:23:56,559
australia he was training the um

683
00:24:00,789 --> 00:23:59,120
contras in the battle against the

684
00:24:03,750 --> 00:24:00,799
communist sandinistas

685
00:24:03,990 --> 00:24:03,760
in nicaragua in the 1980s and this guy

686
00:24:05,590 --> 00:24:04,000
was

687
00:24:07,029 --> 00:24:05,600
essentially an intelligence operative

688
00:24:09,669 --> 00:24:07,039
and as a result of that

689
00:24:10,310 --> 00:24:09,679
i was talking to a lot of ex-agency

690
00:24:13,750 --> 00:24:10,320
people

691
00:24:15,590 --> 00:24:13,760
uh old cia spooks who knew hand

692
00:24:18,390 --> 00:24:15,600
knew the operations of the nergen hand

693
00:24:20,390 --> 00:24:18,400
back so that gave me an in into

694
00:24:21,909 --> 00:24:20,400
people in the intelligence area in the

695
00:24:23,510 --> 00:24:21,919
united states and it's it's a

696
00:24:25,750 --> 00:24:23,520
fascinating area because

697
00:24:26,549 --> 00:24:25,760
one of the things i love about america

698
00:24:28,310 --> 00:24:26,559
is

699
00:24:30,070 --> 00:24:28,320
you can literally look somebody's name

700
00:24:33,110 --> 00:24:30,080
up in a phone book and with a bit of

701
00:24:35,269 --> 00:24:33,120
perspicacity you can find them and um as

702
00:24:37,830 --> 00:24:35,279
i did i i wrote letters to people

703
00:24:38,870 --> 00:24:37,840
i decided not to leave an electronic

704
00:24:40,950 --> 00:24:38,880
trail

705
00:24:42,230 --> 00:24:40,960
you know i have an email or a phone call

706
00:24:44,310 --> 00:24:42,240
because i'm aware

707
00:24:45,669 --> 00:24:44,320
from another story i've done on the five

708
00:24:48,149 --> 00:24:45,679
eyes communications

709
00:24:48,950 --> 00:24:48,159
surveillance spying the echelon

710
00:24:51,190 --> 00:24:48,960
communication

711
00:24:52,310 --> 00:24:51,200
surveillance system that we operate

712
00:24:55,590 --> 00:24:52,320
under the

713
00:24:57,190 --> 00:24:55,600
yakuza uk usa agreement the five eyes

714
00:24:59,269 --> 00:24:57,200
agreement with the us

715
00:25:01,190 --> 00:24:59,279
i know that communications can be easily

716
00:25:02,149 --> 00:25:01,200
monitored and the metadata can be

717
00:25:03,909 --> 00:25:02,159
tracked

718
00:25:05,750 --> 00:25:03,919
so i wrote letters to people i wrote

719
00:25:07,029 --> 00:25:05,760
letters to intelligence operatives that

720
00:25:10,070 --> 00:25:07,039
i knew it had

721
00:25:11,110 --> 00:25:10,080
alleged links to the uap the ufo

722
00:25:13,190 --> 00:25:11,120
phenomenon

723
00:25:16,870 --> 00:25:13,200
i wrote to people in defence i ended up

724
00:25:19,029 --> 00:25:16,880
writing over 160 letters i think it was

725
00:25:20,710 --> 00:25:19,039
good old-fashioned snail mail and it

726
00:25:22,470 --> 00:25:20,720
really paid off for me it was a good

727
00:25:24,710 --> 00:25:22,480
strategy because

728
00:25:27,110 --> 00:25:24,720
in each individual letter that i wrote i

729
00:25:30,470 --> 00:25:27,120
reassured people that i would treat them

730
00:25:31,909 --> 00:25:30,480
with absolute confidentiality

731
00:25:33,990 --> 00:25:31,919
there was a reasonable degree of

732
00:25:37,110 --> 00:25:34,000
certainty that their letters hadn't been

733
00:25:38,630 --> 00:25:37,120
intercepted or opened and

734
00:25:41,190 --> 00:25:38,640
when i posted the letters i guess i

735
00:25:43,110 --> 00:25:41,200
didn't really expect a huge response but

736
00:25:44,630 --> 00:25:43,120
i was really gratified because within a

737
00:25:47,110 --> 00:25:44,640
month or two

738
00:25:48,630 --> 00:25:47,120
i was starting to get calls on my signal

739
00:25:51,029 --> 00:25:48,640
on my phone

740
00:25:51,990 --> 00:25:51,039
which is an encrypted phone coms app

741
00:25:54,390 --> 00:25:52,000
telegram

742
00:25:56,310 --> 00:25:54,400
protonmail you'll find my encrypted

743
00:25:59,269 --> 00:25:56,320
proton mail on my twitter handle

744
00:26:00,149 --> 00:25:59,279
ross kultart at rosscoolthought and i

745
00:26:03,669 --> 00:26:00,159
was getting some

746
00:26:06,070 --> 00:26:03,679
really good high quality sources

747
00:26:07,990 --> 00:26:06,080
coming in and at the same time i was

748
00:26:11,110 --> 00:26:08,000
traveling to the united states

749
00:26:12,630 --> 00:26:11,120
for 60 minutes australia i was often

750
00:26:13,190 --> 00:26:12,640
going to the states three or four times

751
00:26:16,630 --> 00:26:13,200
a year

752
00:26:19,510 --> 00:26:16,640
and i'd often have time in california or

753
00:26:20,230 --> 00:26:19,520
the east coast usa washington dc or new

754
00:26:22,390 --> 00:26:20,240
york and

755
00:26:23,510 --> 00:26:22,400
it gave me the opportunity to meet with

756
00:26:26,070 --> 00:26:23,520
people

757
00:26:28,230 --> 00:26:26,080
and so because i had that background in

758
00:26:29,909 --> 00:26:28,240
defence and intelligence i was able to

759
00:26:32,950 --> 00:26:29,919
get briefings from

760
00:26:34,950 --> 00:26:32,960
officials former and serving officials

761
00:26:36,830 --> 00:26:34,960
and i just started asking questions

762
00:26:40,070 --> 00:26:36,840
incidentally about the uap

763
00:26:43,669 --> 00:26:40,080
issue and what really struck me

764
00:26:46,310 --> 00:26:43,679
was as distinct from the

765
00:26:47,590 --> 00:26:46,320
ridicule and taboo that's traditionally

766
00:26:49,269 --> 00:26:47,600
attached to the subject here in

767
00:26:53,350 --> 00:26:49,279
australia

768
00:26:55,750 --> 00:26:53,360
there was a maturity and an insight

769
00:26:57,510 --> 00:26:55,760
into the issue in america that really

770
00:27:01,110 --> 00:26:57,520
surprised me this is right back in

771
00:27:02,870 --> 00:27:01,120
2015 2016 and one of them actually

772
00:27:04,070 --> 00:27:02,880
suggested to me that i contacted a guy

773
00:27:06,630 --> 00:27:04,080
called chris mellon

774
00:27:07,990 --> 00:27:06,640
and this was back in late 2015 and i

775
00:27:10,549 --> 00:27:08,000
actually wrote

776
00:27:12,149 --> 00:27:10,559
to chris mellon and he very kindly

777
00:27:14,470 --> 00:27:12,159
agreed to talk to me

778
00:27:15,510 --> 00:27:14,480
and one of my great frustrations is we

779
00:27:17,990 --> 00:27:15,520
were literally

780
00:27:19,990 --> 00:27:18,000
a day from hopping on the plane to fly

781
00:27:22,630 --> 00:27:20,000
to do a ufo story with chris mellon

782
00:27:23,870 --> 00:27:22,640
for australian 60 minutes sometime in i

783
00:27:26,630 --> 00:27:23,880
think early

784
00:27:28,710 --> 00:27:26,640
2017 well before the funding and the

785
00:27:30,710 --> 00:27:28,720
announcement of ttsa

786
00:27:32,470 --> 00:27:30,720
and well before by the way the new york

787
00:27:35,350 --> 00:27:32,480
times got the scoop with the

788
00:27:35,750 --> 00:27:35,360
tic tac video and all the other videos

789
00:27:38,950 --> 00:27:35,760
and

790
00:27:41,110 --> 00:27:38,960
uh my then editor uh

791
00:27:42,950 --> 00:27:41,120
got cold feet they weren't interfered

792
00:27:44,630 --> 00:27:42,960
with by men in black they just got cold

793
00:27:45,990 --> 00:27:44,640
feet and as they explained to me they

794
00:27:47,110 --> 00:27:46,000
said look ross i'm

795
00:27:48,950 --> 00:27:47,120
i'm just worried we're gonna get

796
00:27:51,430 --> 00:27:48,960
ridiculed if we do the story you know

797
00:27:52,870 --> 00:27:51,440
ufos is such a taboo subject i really

798
00:27:54,710 --> 00:27:52,880
don't think we should be going there i

799
00:27:57,510 --> 00:27:54,720
don't think we've got enough to justify

800
00:27:58,310 --> 00:27:57,520
doing a dig and i remember saying this

801
00:28:00,389 --> 00:27:58,320
this is a

802
00:28:02,710 --> 00:28:00,399
a former deputy assistant secretary of

803
00:28:03,590 --> 00:28:02,720
defense for the united states defense

804
00:28:05,510 --> 00:28:03,600
department

805
00:28:08,710 --> 00:28:05,520
and he wants to talk to me about how

806
00:28:10,789 --> 00:28:08,720
ufos uaps are a real thing and that we

807
00:28:11,669 --> 00:28:10,799
should as media be taking them seriously

808
00:28:15,510 --> 00:28:11,679
i said

809
00:28:17,830 --> 00:28:15,520
what's what's wrong with that and

810
00:28:18,710 --> 00:28:17,840
ultimately they chickened out and and

811
00:28:20,470 --> 00:28:18,720
it's a big issue

812
00:28:22,630 --> 00:28:20,480
you've got to have a strong editor and i

813
00:28:25,029 --> 00:28:22,640
was very very lucky in the end that

814
00:28:27,510 --> 00:28:25,039
uh channel 7 australia which is a rival

815
00:28:29,909 --> 00:28:27,520
network to 60 minutes network

816
00:28:31,430 --> 00:28:29,919
they um as soon as i pitched them a ufo

817
00:28:34,070 --> 00:28:31,440
story they wouldn't leave me alone they

818
00:28:37,830 --> 00:28:34,080
were very very keen and you know why

819
00:28:39,990 --> 00:28:37,840
because ufos rate their socks off

820
00:28:41,430 --> 00:28:40,000
and that's the other thing the wisdom of

821
00:28:45,029 --> 00:28:41,440
the crowd the public

822
00:28:45,750 --> 00:28:45,039
as always years ahead of the stupid

823
00:28:48,950 --> 00:28:45,760
media

824
00:28:50,630 --> 00:28:48,960
and um and ultimately

825
00:28:52,470 --> 00:28:50,640
i've been gratified by the level of

826
00:28:55,669 --> 00:28:52,480
response i've been getting to

827
00:28:58,710 --> 00:28:55,679
the book and to the documentary

828
00:29:02,070 --> 00:28:58,720
because there always was and there is

829
00:29:03,029 --> 00:29:02,080
a huge audience for uf ufo issues out

830
00:29:07,510 --> 00:29:03,039
there

831
00:29:10,630 --> 00:29:07,520
and you know what they're not crazy

832
00:29:12,149 --> 00:29:10,640
i agree i agree i was i i was

833
00:29:14,310 --> 00:29:12,159
lucky enough to be the first one to

834
00:29:14,630 --> 00:29:14,320
interview chris on the chris mellon on

835
00:29:16,950 --> 00:29:14,640
that's

836
00:29:19,350 --> 00:29:16,960
on this subject which was um i can't

837
00:29:21,669 --> 00:29:19,360
remember i thought it was 2015 but

838
00:29:23,510 --> 00:29:21,679
it might i may be wrong look my dates

839
00:29:24,549 --> 00:29:23,520
are probably skewey i can't remember

840
00:29:27,029 --> 00:29:24,559
either but um

841
00:29:27,750 --> 00:29:27,039
i mean it was certainly 2015 2016 when

842
00:29:30,310 --> 00:29:27,760
chris first

843
00:29:31,590 --> 00:29:30,320
started sticking his head up i think i'd

844
00:29:33,909 --> 00:29:31,600
heard him on rojas

845
00:29:34,950 --> 00:29:33,919
i think uh alejandro rojas had had him

846
00:29:36,310 --> 00:29:34,960
on and um

847
00:29:37,990 --> 00:29:36,320
as soon as i heard him there i thought

848
00:29:40,549 --> 00:29:38,000
wow i've got to talk to this guy

849
00:29:42,630 --> 00:29:40,559
and um yeah i think none of you might

850
00:29:44,710 --> 00:29:42,640
even have heard your one mate

851
00:29:46,710 --> 00:29:44,720
yeah um yeah there's a lot of views on

852
00:29:50,630 --> 00:29:46,720
that on the youtube one that

853
00:29:53,430 --> 00:29:50,640
now i imagine that you may have had

854
00:29:53,990 --> 00:29:53,440
some of these people that you spoken to

855
00:29:55,990 --> 00:29:54,000
say

856
00:29:57,590 --> 00:29:56,000
look i'll tell you this but it's off

857
00:29:58,470 --> 00:29:57,600
record did you have that type of thing

858
00:30:01,830 --> 00:29:58,480
happen

859
00:30:03,830 --> 00:30:01,840
90 percent of my sources on this story

860
00:30:06,389 --> 00:30:03,840
are people who've only agreed to speak

861
00:30:09,750 --> 00:30:06,399
to me on an anonymous basis

862
00:30:10,230 --> 00:30:09,760
because many of them are 90 because many

863
00:30:12,549 --> 00:30:10,240
of them

864
00:30:13,990 --> 00:30:12,559
are serving officials uh i've i've

865
00:30:17,029 --> 00:30:14,000
spoken to people

866
00:30:18,470 --> 00:30:17,039
who purport i'm not saying they are for

867
00:30:21,510 --> 00:30:18,480
sure because i don't know

868
00:30:24,870 --> 00:30:21,520
but i've spoken to people who purport

869
00:30:27,350 --> 00:30:24,880
to be part of what they refer to in many

870
00:30:28,789 --> 00:30:27,360
cases as the program

871
00:30:30,789 --> 00:30:28,799
and when they're talking about the

872
00:30:33,990 --> 00:30:30,799
program they're talking about

873
00:30:35,830 --> 00:30:34,000
an active scientific investigation into

874
00:30:37,830 --> 00:30:35,840
re-engineering or back engineering

875
00:30:39,430 --> 00:30:37,840
technology that they believe is not of

876
00:30:42,149 --> 00:30:39,440
this world

877
00:30:43,190 --> 00:30:42,159
as i say that my heart my heart skips a

878
00:30:45,029 --> 00:30:43,200
little because

879
00:30:46,789 --> 00:30:45,039
yeah i think okay now i really have

880
00:30:49,750 --> 00:30:46,799
entered into the tin foil hat

881
00:30:49,990 --> 00:30:49,760
area because i mean it's you know once

882
00:30:53,590 --> 00:30:50,000
you

883
00:30:57,590 --> 00:30:53,600
into an area that really is taboo

884
00:30:59,430 --> 00:30:57,600
you know um you're repeating what

885
00:31:00,389 --> 00:30:59,440
someone said it's not like you're saying

886
00:31:02,389 --> 00:31:00,399
it you know well as

887
00:31:04,230 --> 00:31:02,399
as as i said to somebody the other day i

888
00:31:06,549 --> 00:31:04,240
had a phone call from a very

889
00:31:09,830 --> 00:31:06,559
well-respected british journalist on a

890
00:31:11,750 --> 00:31:09,840
major british newspaper and um

891
00:31:13,350 --> 00:31:11,760
i'll just take my take the piss out of

892
00:31:14,070 --> 00:31:13,360
my pony colleagues for a moment now you

893
00:31:16,230 --> 00:31:14,080
know

894
00:31:18,389 --> 00:31:16,240
rosso boy what what what the hell's

895
00:31:21,269 --> 00:31:18,399
going on why are you doing a story about

896
00:31:22,870 --> 00:31:21,279
ufos and i go because they're real mate

897
00:31:25,509 --> 00:31:22,880
and he goes

898
00:31:27,029 --> 00:31:25,519
who says and i said the pentagon mate

899
00:31:27,430 --> 00:31:27,039
the bloody pentagon's saying they're

900
00:31:29,590 --> 00:31:27,440
real

901
00:31:32,389 --> 00:31:29,600
you know and he went where and i went

902
00:31:33,830 --> 00:31:32,399
okay have a look at the uap report to

903
00:31:35,590 --> 00:31:33,840
congress which is acknowledging that

904
00:31:37,310 --> 00:31:35,600
there is a mysterious phenomenon that

905
00:31:40,950 --> 00:31:37,320
they can't explain

906
00:31:41,909 --> 00:31:40,960
143 out of 144 incidents where u.s

907
00:31:44,470 --> 00:31:41,919
fighter pilots

908
00:31:45,990 --> 00:31:44,480
aviators commercial pilots have seen

909
00:31:49,190 --> 00:31:46,000
anomalous objects doing

910
00:31:50,070 --> 00:31:49,200
speeds maneuvers far beyond known human

911
00:31:51,750 --> 00:31:50,080
technology

912
00:31:54,149 --> 00:31:51,760
there is an acknowledgment there of a

913
00:31:55,509 --> 00:31:54,159
mystery that cannot be explained

914
00:31:57,430 --> 00:31:55,519
yes but they're not saying they're

915
00:31:58,789 --> 00:31:57,440
flying sources ross and i go well

916
00:32:00,630 --> 00:31:58,799
i'm not saying it's flying sources

917
00:32:01,669 --> 00:32:00,640
either mate i'm saying that there is a

918
00:32:05,590 --> 00:32:01,679
genuine

919
00:32:08,549 --> 00:32:05,600
out there

920
00:32:11,269 --> 00:32:08,559
somebody something is operating

921
00:32:15,029 --> 00:32:11,279
anomalous technology that is far beyond

922
00:32:16,630 --> 00:32:15,039
known acknowledged human technology

923
00:32:18,310 --> 00:32:16,640
so you're saying it's alien no i'm not

924
00:32:19,750 --> 00:32:18,320
saying it's alien so

925
00:32:21,430 --> 00:32:19,760
there's this weird roundabout

926
00:32:22,950 --> 00:32:21,440
conversation where in the end he sort of

927
00:32:24,710 --> 00:32:22,960
went away scratching his head because he

928
00:32:27,029 --> 00:32:24,720
could see my point

929
00:32:27,990 --> 00:32:27,039
and this is you know a columnist who's

930
00:32:29,750 --> 00:32:28,000
probably going to write

931
00:32:32,230 --> 00:32:29,760
for one of britain's most imminent

932
00:32:33,110 --> 00:32:32,240
newspapers at some stage in the next few

933
00:32:34,950 --> 00:32:33,120
weeks

934
00:32:36,789 --> 00:32:34,960
and essentially i gave him a hearing i

935
00:32:40,470 --> 00:32:36,799
said i tried to give him a primer

936
00:32:42,789 --> 00:32:40,480
in in understanding why

937
00:32:44,789 --> 00:32:42,799
it does need to be taken seriously and

938
00:32:46,549 --> 00:32:44,799
when i took him through the

939
00:32:48,950 --> 00:32:46,559
i mean you've only got to go through the

940
00:32:51,509 --> 00:32:48,960
the uss nimitz tic tac story for example

941
00:32:53,350 --> 00:32:51,519
the 2004 nimitz story

942
00:32:56,149 --> 00:32:53,360
i mean you know you've got fighter

943
00:32:59,110 --> 00:32:56,159
pilots of the caliber of dave fraver

944
00:33:01,509 --> 00:32:59,120
charles curth alex dietrich and they're

945
00:33:04,870 --> 00:33:01,519
describing a phenomenon that is just

946
00:33:08,070 --> 00:33:04,880
completely unknown to them as

947
00:33:10,149 --> 00:33:08,080
experienced aviators and for the

948
00:33:11,830 --> 00:33:10,159
debunkers and the skeptics who tediously

949
00:33:13,750 --> 00:33:11,840
assert oh yeah they're just humans you

950
00:33:15,590 --> 00:33:13,760
know witnesses have problems

951
00:33:17,029 --> 00:33:15,600
then you've got the kevin days of this

952
00:33:19,830 --> 00:33:17,039
world who are sitting in front of the

953
00:33:23,029 --> 00:33:19,840
world's best radar systems the phased

954
00:33:26,070 --> 00:33:23,039
array radar systems multiple

955
00:33:29,190 --> 00:33:26,080
systems on different ships he's on the

956
00:33:30,950 --> 00:33:29,200
guided weapons destroyer um uh what is

957
00:33:33,269 --> 00:33:30,960
it the uss princeton

958
00:33:35,029 --> 00:33:33,279
and there are multiple other phased

959
00:33:37,750 --> 00:33:35,039
array systems including

960
00:33:39,269 --> 00:33:37,760
on an e2 hawkeye aircraft that is also

961
00:33:42,389 --> 00:33:39,279
engaging with and i'm

962
00:33:43,590 --> 00:33:42,399
told eyeballing with human eyeballs this

963
00:33:46,630 --> 00:33:43,600
phenomenon

964
00:33:48,630 --> 00:33:46,640
and ultimately when you see the the

965
00:33:50,549 --> 00:33:48,640
concatenation of evidence which

966
00:33:54,149 --> 00:33:50,559
basically shows that there is

967
00:33:57,350 --> 00:33:54,159
an abundance of evidence to show that

968
00:34:01,430 --> 00:33:57,360
a multitude of different sensors videos

969
00:34:04,070 --> 00:34:01,440
apfler imaging radar and human eyeballs

970
00:34:05,190 --> 00:34:04,080
saw a phenomenon that cannot be

971
00:34:08,230 --> 00:34:05,200
explained

972
00:34:11,990 --> 00:34:08,240
and as the us pentagon admitted in april

973
00:34:14,629 --> 00:34:12,000
last year no 2020 yeah it was

974
00:34:15,669 --> 00:34:14,639
2020. they basically said they couldn't

975
00:34:17,829 --> 00:34:15,679
explain the

976
00:34:18,869 --> 00:34:17,839
tic tac video the gimbal video the go

977
00:34:21,430 --> 00:34:18,879
fast video

978
00:34:22,950 --> 00:34:21,440
and they'd looked at every prosaic

979
00:34:25,270 --> 00:34:22,960
explanation

980
00:34:27,030 --> 00:34:25,280
that's a moment when i think any

981
00:34:28,069 --> 00:34:27,040
journalist in the mainstream really has

982
00:34:29,909 --> 00:34:28,079
to go okay

983
00:34:32,230 --> 00:34:29,919
this is for real this is serious we have

984
00:34:34,389 --> 00:34:32,240
to start looking at this issue and

985
00:34:35,109 --> 00:34:34,399
engaging with it and taking it seriously

986
00:34:37,030 --> 00:34:35,119
and

987
00:34:38,790 --> 00:34:37,040
when the issues raised at pentagon

988
00:34:40,629 --> 00:34:38,800
briefings people have got to stop that

989
00:34:47,510 --> 00:34:40,639
pathetic

990
00:34:47,990 --> 00:34:47,520
titter because they're being manipulated

991
00:34:49,349 --> 00:34:48,000
and this

992
00:34:51,589 --> 00:34:49,359
is the other area that i found

993
00:34:54,470 --> 00:34:51,599
fascinating is when you go back

994
00:34:55,829 --> 00:34:54,480
and look at the archives of the cia and

995
00:34:57,510 --> 00:34:55,839
go back and look at the defense

996
00:35:00,069 --> 00:34:57,520
department files

997
00:35:01,270 --> 00:35:00,079
from the 50s and the 60s you can see

998
00:35:04,550 --> 00:35:01,280
that there was genuine

999
00:35:06,630 --> 00:35:04,560
rising concern for whatever reason

1000
00:35:07,829 --> 00:35:06,640
inside the defense department that

1001
00:35:10,310 --> 00:35:07,839
certain

1002
00:35:11,910 --> 00:35:10,320
ufo organizations and former senior

1003
00:35:13,910 --> 00:35:11,920
defense officials like roscoe

1004
00:35:17,349 --> 00:35:13,920
helencotter the former director

1005
00:35:18,630 --> 00:35:17,359
of the cia a founding director of the

1006
00:35:21,030 --> 00:35:18,640
cia

1007
00:35:22,310 --> 00:35:21,040
were principals in nycap you know

1008
00:35:24,230 --> 00:35:22,320
essentially

1009
00:35:26,870 --> 00:35:24,240
right at the forefront of you know the

1010
00:35:28,630 --> 00:35:26,880
louis lozandos of their day

1011
00:35:30,630 --> 00:35:28,640
instigating calls for greater

1012
00:35:33,030 --> 00:35:30,640
transparency and explanation from the u

1013
00:35:35,829 --> 00:35:33,040
s government about the uap phenomenon

1014
00:35:37,030 --> 00:35:35,839
and what happened what was the response

1015
00:35:39,910 --> 00:35:37,040
the documents

1016
00:35:40,470 --> 00:35:39,920
show overwhelmingly that the u.s

1017
00:35:45,109 --> 00:35:40,480
government

1018
00:35:47,670 --> 00:35:45,119
instigated ridicul

1019
00:35:49,190 --> 00:35:47,680
and contempt for the subject the media

1020
00:35:51,349 --> 00:35:49,200
was manipulated

1021
00:35:53,270 --> 00:35:51,359
and that's the issue the media don't

1022
00:35:55,910 --> 00:35:53,280
realize why they titter

1023
00:35:57,349 --> 00:35:55,920
why they giggle when this witness whole

1024
00:35:59,430 --> 00:35:57,359
subject is approached

1025
00:36:00,470 --> 00:35:59,440
the reason they do is because they've

1026
00:36:04,950 --> 00:36:00,480
been played

1027
00:36:08,310 --> 00:36:04,960
service that essentially decided to shut

1028
00:36:10,790 --> 00:36:08,320
this issue down for no good reason

1029
00:36:12,150 --> 00:36:10,800
the public were lied to after public

1030
00:36:14,710 --> 00:36:12,160
brew blue book

1031
00:36:16,390 --> 00:36:14,720
we were told that the u.s air force had

1032
00:36:18,150 --> 00:36:16,400
ceased investigations into the

1033
00:36:18,710 --> 00:36:18,160
phenomenon that they were no longer

1034
00:36:22,550 --> 00:36:18,720
interested

1035
00:36:24,630 --> 00:36:22,560
in uaps as a national security issue

1036
00:36:25,670 --> 00:36:24,640
that there was no threat to flight

1037
00:36:28,870 --> 00:36:25,680
safety

1038
00:36:30,870 --> 00:36:28,880
that is and was a lie

1039
00:36:32,950 --> 00:36:30,880
and we know it's a lie because the

1040
00:36:34,630 --> 00:36:32,960
report to congress has acknowledged

1041
00:36:36,870 --> 00:36:34,640
that there is a flight safety issue

1042
00:36:38,829 --> 00:36:36,880
they've been 11 near misses with these

1043
00:36:42,550 --> 00:36:38,839
pilots that have reported these

1044
00:36:46,870 --> 00:36:42,560
144 incidents i know a lot more

1045
00:36:48,470 --> 00:36:46,880
um they've been unable to explain 143

1046
00:36:51,589 --> 00:36:48,480
out of those 144

1047
00:36:53,990 --> 00:36:51,599
incidents that's important and so yes

1048
00:36:54,710 --> 00:36:54,000
we know we know that for the last six

1049
00:36:57,030 --> 00:36:54,720
decades

1050
00:36:58,230 --> 00:36:57,040
since the closure of project blue book

1051
00:37:02,390 --> 00:36:58,240
the us

1052
00:37:04,630 --> 00:37:02,400
never stopped investigating uaps

1053
00:37:07,030 --> 00:37:04,640
that's right that's right i just want to

1054
00:37:09,990 --> 00:37:07,040
read you a headline

1055
00:37:11,750 --> 00:37:10,000
and this is from the physicist uh

1056
00:37:14,230 --> 00:37:11,760
lawrence krauss

1057
00:37:16,790 --> 00:37:14,240
um an article that came out in july

1058
00:37:19,589 --> 00:37:16,800
after the report came out

1059
00:37:20,230 --> 00:37:19,599
the title to his article is whatever it

1060
00:37:23,589 --> 00:37:20,240
is

1061
00:37:24,870 --> 00:37:23,599
it ain't aliens what do you think of

1062
00:37:27,510 --> 00:37:24,880
that title

1063
00:37:30,310 --> 00:37:27,520
look i mean that to me is the most

1064
00:37:33,270 --> 00:37:30,320
unscientific assertion

1065
00:37:34,310 --> 00:37:33,280
how does he possibly know that i mean as

1066
00:37:36,950 --> 00:37:34,320
the uap

1067
00:37:37,589 --> 00:37:36,960
report to congress itself contemplates

1068
00:37:39,990 --> 00:37:37,599
one

1069
00:37:41,430 --> 00:37:40,000
possible albeit it suggests it's less

1070
00:37:43,589 --> 00:37:41,440
possible than others

1071
00:37:45,270 --> 00:37:43,599
one possible explanation is

1072
00:37:48,550 --> 00:37:45,280
extraterrestrial

1073
00:37:50,550 --> 00:37:48,560
and the fact that you have scientists

1074
00:37:52,790 --> 00:37:50,560
of the caliber of lawrence krauss i

1075
00:37:54,710 --> 00:37:52,800
don't for the moment doubt that he's a

1076
00:37:55,829 --> 00:37:54,720
highly credentialed and well-respected

1077
00:37:58,870 --> 00:37:55,839
scientist

1078
00:38:01,750 --> 00:37:58,880
but it's it's unscientific

1079
00:38:03,670 --> 00:38:01,760
to make such assertions and this is the

1080
00:38:05,589 --> 00:38:03,680
thing is

1081
00:38:07,430 --> 00:38:05,599
conventional science doesn't and this

1082
00:38:08,870 --> 00:38:07,440
was a realization for me you know one of

1083
00:38:09,990 --> 00:38:08,880
the greatest gifts from the

1084
00:38:12,870 --> 00:38:10,000
enlightenment

1085
00:38:15,109 --> 00:38:12,880
was this notion that science is a thing

1086
00:38:17,430 --> 00:38:15,119
that that essentially we shouldn't have

1087
00:38:19,349 --> 00:38:17,440
um superstitious belief that we should

1088
00:38:23,349 --> 00:38:19,359
have a basis for what we

1089
00:38:27,030 --> 00:38:23,359
know not what we believe ufology is not

1090
00:38:27,430 --> 00:38:27,040
a religion it's a science it's a study

1091
00:38:30,550 --> 00:38:27,440
of

1092
00:38:32,950 --> 00:38:30,560
a phenomenon that is unexplained

1093
00:38:34,069 --> 00:38:32,960
so we we shouldn't be asking people as

1094
00:38:36,950 --> 00:38:34,079
i'm often asked

1095
00:38:37,990 --> 00:38:36,960
tediously in uh dinner parties you know

1096
00:38:41,510 --> 00:38:38,000
do you believe

1097
00:38:43,750 --> 00:38:41,520
and i go

1098
00:38:44,790 --> 00:38:43,760
look my belief's not relevant belief's

1099
00:38:46,950 --> 00:38:44,800
not the issue

1100
00:38:47,910 --> 00:38:46,960
and it's not good science to talk about

1101
00:38:49,870 --> 00:38:47,920
belief

1102
00:38:52,150 --> 00:38:49,880
and so when you have people making

1103
00:38:57,990 --> 00:38:52,160
unscientific assertions

1104
00:38:58,870 --> 00:38:58,000
uh you know no basis for it to be alien

1105
00:39:00,710 --> 00:38:58,880
well that's just

1106
00:39:03,510 --> 00:39:00,720
it's just a scientist sticking

1107
00:39:07,430 --> 00:39:03,520
his head up his ass

1108
00:39:09,030 --> 00:39:07,440
right yes absolutely we're we're um

1109
00:39:10,870 --> 00:39:09,040
we are getting a lot of people are

1110
00:39:12,550 --> 00:39:10,880
trying to post comments

1111
00:39:14,310 --> 00:39:12,560
i'm not gonna i just don't feel as

1112
00:39:15,510 --> 00:39:14,320
though we're going to going to take any

1113
00:39:18,069 --> 00:39:15,520
calls however

1114
00:39:19,270 --> 00:39:18,079
uh for those of you watching live we are

1115
00:39:22,390 --> 00:39:19,280
going to go an extra half

1116
00:39:23,270 --> 00:39:22,400
hour um you're still up for that ross

1117
00:39:25,670 --> 00:39:23,280
are you

1118
00:39:26,390 --> 00:39:25,680
yeah sure yeah sure yeah very happy so

1119
00:39:32,390 --> 00:39:26,400
we're going to go

1120
00:39:33,510 --> 00:39:32,400
50 minutes from now or thereabouts

1121
00:39:35,670 --> 00:39:33,520
longer

1122
00:39:36,870 --> 00:39:35,680
so irene has a question next but first

1123
00:39:38,950 --> 00:39:36,880
of all i just want to

1124
00:39:41,109 --> 00:39:38,960
post a question from the chat because

1125
00:39:43,349 --> 00:39:41,119
this woman always uh has been

1126
00:39:44,950 --> 00:39:43,359
uh listening to the show forever and she

1127
00:39:48,069 --> 00:39:44,960
wants to know have you ever had any

1128
00:39:49,270 --> 00:39:48,079
experiences of any type on your own in

1129
00:39:51,430 --> 00:39:49,280
your own life

1130
00:39:53,670 --> 00:39:51,440
no i haven't no there's nothing that's

1131
00:39:55,430 --> 00:39:53,680
prompted me from personal experience to

1132
00:39:55,990 --> 00:39:55,440
believe that there is a paranormal

1133
00:39:58,870 --> 00:39:56,000
phenomenon

1134
00:40:00,470 --> 00:39:58,880
that i should be investigating the um

1135
00:40:01,430 --> 00:40:00,480
probably the earliest incident that i'm

1136
00:40:05,109 --> 00:40:01,440
aware of

1137
00:40:06,510 --> 00:40:05,119
is the kaikoura ufo incident in new

1138
00:40:10,069 --> 00:40:06,520
zealand in december

1139
00:40:11,589 --> 00:40:10,079
1978 when i was a 16 year old boy and

1140
00:40:13,349 --> 00:40:11,599
it's quite a well-known incident but it

1141
00:40:15,190 --> 00:40:13,359
was kind of overshadowed by an incident

1142
00:40:16,710 --> 00:40:15,200
that had happened a month or two earlier

1143
00:40:19,109 --> 00:40:16,720
involving the disappearance

1144
00:40:21,270 --> 00:40:19,119
in melbourne or from melbourne of a

1145
00:40:24,069 --> 00:40:21,280
pilot by the name of frederick

1146
00:40:24,710 --> 00:40:24,079
valentich and he disappeared over bass

1147
00:40:27,430 --> 00:40:24,720
strait

1148
00:40:28,710 --> 00:40:27,440
on route to an island on way on the way

1149
00:40:31,750 --> 00:40:28,720
to tasmania

1150
00:40:32,550 --> 00:40:31,760
on route to an island where his plane he

1151
00:40:35,750 --> 00:40:32,560
belie

1152
00:40:37,750 --> 00:40:35,760
he asserted on the audio that was um

1153
00:40:38,790 --> 00:40:37,760
recorded by the air traffic control in

1154
00:40:41,190 --> 00:40:38,800
melbourne

1155
00:40:42,790 --> 00:40:41,200
he believed there was some kind of craft

1156
00:40:44,630 --> 00:40:42,800
hovering overhead

1157
00:40:45,829 --> 00:40:44,640
very very dramatic story because

1158
00:40:48,710 --> 00:40:45,839
literally his last

1159
00:40:49,270 --> 00:40:48,720
his last words were it's not an aircraft

1160
00:40:51,990 --> 00:40:49,280
and

1161
00:40:53,750 --> 00:40:52,000
he described this giant metallic object

1162
00:40:57,270 --> 00:40:53,760
that had happened about a month or so

1163
00:41:01,190 --> 00:40:57,280
before the kaikoura ufo sighting and so

1164
00:41:02,470 --> 00:41:01,200
as a cynical science-trained 16-year-old

1165
00:41:05,349 --> 00:41:02,480
who thought he knew everything

1166
00:41:07,910 --> 00:41:05,359
um when i heard about the kaikoura ufo

1167
00:41:10,230 --> 00:41:07,920
incident in december 1978.

1168
00:41:12,150 --> 00:41:10,240
um i was really skeptical i was really

1169
00:41:13,270 --> 00:41:12,160
really cynical and so when our prime

1170
00:41:15,510 --> 00:41:13,280
minister of the day

1171
00:41:16,470 --> 00:41:15,520
robert muldoon the prime minister of new

1172
00:41:18,950 --> 00:41:16,480
zealand

1173
00:41:19,990 --> 00:41:18,960
came out and reported confidently that

1174
00:41:22,550 --> 00:41:20,000
the new zealand

1175
00:41:25,109 --> 00:41:22,560
air force had basically determined that

1176
00:41:28,069 --> 00:41:25,119
these people that had claimed to have

1177
00:41:29,349 --> 00:41:28,079
filmed uh craft or objects coming up

1178
00:41:31,190 --> 00:41:29,359
near their plane

1179
00:41:33,750 --> 00:41:31,200
they were misconceived they'd

1180
00:41:34,870 --> 00:41:33,760
misidentified squid boat lights fishing

1181
00:41:37,589 --> 00:41:34,880
boat lights

1182
00:41:39,670 --> 00:41:37,599
reflecting off clouds and either that or

1183
00:41:41,430 --> 00:41:39,680
the planet venus had had essentially

1184
00:41:43,910 --> 00:41:41,440
refracted in a way that meant that

1185
00:41:47,030 --> 00:41:43,920
they'd misconceived what they saw

1186
00:41:48,870 --> 00:41:47,040
and in i guess my naivety that's what i

1187
00:41:51,990 --> 00:41:48,880
accepted as a 16 year old

1188
00:41:55,030 --> 00:41:52,000
and it wasn't until

1189
00:41:57,430 --> 00:41:55,040
i became a journalist and started

1190
00:41:59,349 --> 00:41:57,440
looking into that episode and there were

1191
00:41:59,829 --> 00:41:59,359
a couple of turning points for me one

1192
00:42:01,990 --> 00:41:59,839
was

1193
00:42:04,470 --> 00:42:02,000
i met an air traffic controller at

1194
00:42:07,829 --> 00:42:04,480
wellington airport which was

1195
00:42:10,870 --> 00:42:07,839
40 or 50 miles across cook strait but

1196
00:42:12,069 --> 00:42:10,880
had clear line of sight by radar to the

1197
00:42:14,550 --> 00:42:12,079
location

1198
00:42:16,309 --> 00:42:14,560
where this cargo aircraft had engaged

1199
00:42:18,309 --> 00:42:16,319
with these mysterious

1200
00:42:19,670 --> 00:42:18,319
lights and you can actually see these

1201
00:42:24,150 --> 00:42:19,680
lights if you just google

1202
00:42:27,750 --> 00:42:24,160
kaikoura k-a-i-k-o-u-r-a

1203
00:42:31,470 --> 00:42:27,760
kaikoura lights 1978 quentin

1204
00:42:33,270 --> 00:42:31,480
fogerty q-u-e-n-t-i fogerty

1205
00:42:35,349 --> 00:42:33,280
f-o-g-a-r-t-y

1206
00:42:36,870 --> 00:42:35,359
and quentin was an australian cameraman

1207
00:42:39,430 --> 00:42:36,880
who just happened to be in new zealand

1208
00:42:42,470 --> 00:42:39,440
on holiday with his um

1209
00:42:44,230 --> 00:42:42,480
with his family for christmas and uh he

1210
00:42:45,030 --> 00:42:44,240
got dispatched because there'd been a

1211
00:42:47,670 --> 00:42:45,040
sighting

1212
00:42:49,270 --> 00:42:47,680
i think the night before by the pilot

1213
00:42:51,589 --> 00:42:49,280
who'd reported it

1214
00:42:53,190 --> 00:42:51,599
and uh he hopped on the plane with the

1215
00:42:55,030 --> 00:42:53,200
pilot and went back with him

1216
00:42:56,630 --> 00:42:55,040
on the way back to blenheim which is a

1217
00:42:58,150 --> 00:42:56,640
little town in the north of

1218
00:43:00,710 --> 00:42:58,160
the south island of new zealand and on

1219
00:43:03,190 --> 00:43:00,720
the way back they they filmed these

1220
00:43:04,630 --> 00:43:03,200
objects and i guess as a 16 year old

1221
00:43:06,550 --> 00:43:04,640
when i saw the reports

1222
00:43:08,069 --> 00:43:06,560
confidently asserting from our defence

1223
00:43:10,150 --> 00:43:08,079
forces in new zealand that there was

1224
00:43:12,150 --> 00:43:10,160
nothing to worry about people should

1225
00:43:14,470 --> 00:43:12,160
just reassure themselves that it was all

1226
00:43:16,150 --> 00:43:14,480
easily explained and the the people

1227
00:43:18,470 --> 00:43:16,160
who'd videoed this and made a big song

1228
00:43:19,910 --> 00:43:18,480
and dance about it clearly had ufo fever

1229
00:43:22,870 --> 00:43:19,920
and were caught up in the

1230
00:43:24,069 --> 00:43:22,880
hysteria from the valentich case it

1231
00:43:27,750 --> 00:43:24,079
wasn't

1232
00:43:31,270 --> 00:43:27,760
until a few years later that i began

1233
00:43:34,069 --> 00:43:31,280
doing my own digging um notably i spoke

1234
00:43:35,990 --> 00:43:34,079
to quentin fogerty the filmmaker and he

1235
00:43:40,150 --> 00:43:36,000
convinced me that what he

1236
00:43:42,470 --> 00:43:40,160
filmed was not just distant lights

1237
00:43:44,309 --> 00:43:42,480
he and dennis grant who was another

1238
00:43:45,829 --> 00:43:44,319
reporter who was on the plane with him a

1239
00:43:48,309 --> 00:43:45,839
very well respected political

1240
00:43:52,069 --> 00:43:48,319
correspondent in australia in his day

1241
00:43:54,630 --> 00:43:52,079
they'd actually seen the reflections

1242
00:43:56,309 --> 00:43:54,640
of the plane on the water it was such a

1243
00:43:58,069 --> 00:43:56,319
clear night you know this notion that

1244
00:43:59,190 --> 00:43:58,079
there were reflections of clouds were

1245
00:44:00,790 --> 00:43:59,200
absurd

1246
00:44:02,390 --> 00:44:00,800
and when we looked at the positions of

1247
00:44:05,109 --> 00:44:02,400
the planet venus on the night it was

1248
00:44:07,990 --> 00:44:05,119
just completely inconsistent with any

1249
00:44:08,950 --> 00:44:08,000
plausible explanation by the air force

1250
00:44:11,349 --> 00:44:08,960
and then

1251
00:44:13,349 --> 00:44:11,359
john cordy the air traffic controller

1252
00:44:15,349 --> 00:44:13,359
that i spoke to from wellington airport

1253
00:44:16,550 --> 00:44:15,359
he was the piester resistance because

1254
00:44:19,190 --> 00:44:16,560
we'd been told

1255
00:44:19,990 --> 00:44:19,200
in the new zealand air force report that

1256
00:44:23,270 --> 00:44:20,000
the

1257
00:44:25,990 --> 00:44:23,280
wellington radar was faulty that night

1258
00:44:28,390 --> 00:44:26,000
and uh john cordy said to me that's just

1259
00:44:30,950 --> 00:44:28,400
rubbish it's absolute he said

1260
00:44:32,309 --> 00:44:30,960
my radar set was working perfectly and i

1261
00:44:33,829 --> 00:44:32,319
know what i saw

1262
00:44:35,430 --> 00:44:33,839
and he said there were certainly no

1263
00:44:38,309 --> 00:44:35,440
fishing boats at 14

1264
00:44:40,870 --> 00:44:38,319
000 feet which is where this plane was

1265
00:44:41,670 --> 00:44:40,880
and he said i i was talking to quentin

1266
00:44:43,510 --> 00:44:41,680
fogerty and

1267
00:44:45,349 --> 00:44:43,520
dennis grant and the pilot captain

1268
00:44:47,589 --> 00:44:45,359
startup bill startup

1269
00:44:50,069 --> 00:44:47,599
and we could actually see these objects

1270
00:44:52,390 --> 00:44:50,079
on radar maneuvering around the plane

1271
00:44:54,230 --> 00:44:52,400
in exactly the position that they were

1272
00:44:56,470 --> 00:44:54,240
reporting they were seeing

1273
00:44:58,150 --> 00:44:56,480
on their planes radar and with their

1274
00:45:00,950 --> 00:44:58,160
naked eyeball

1275
00:45:01,589 --> 00:45:00,960
and to this day the kaikoura lights

1276
00:45:03,990 --> 00:45:01,599
remain

1277
00:45:05,109 --> 00:45:04,000
a mystery i know one of your most

1278
00:45:06,870 --> 00:45:05,119
imminent um

1279
00:45:08,550 --> 00:45:06,880
investigators bruce mcabee has done a

1280
00:45:10,710 --> 00:45:08,560
lot of work on this and

1281
00:45:12,150 --> 00:45:10,720
uh it should be acknowledged that i

1282
00:45:14,069 --> 00:45:12,160
think he's reached very much the same

1283
00:45:17,589 --> 00:45:14,079
conclusion as i that that essentially

1284
00:45:20,550 --> 00:45:17,599
the kaikoura lights ufo incident

1285
00:45:21,829 --> 00:45:20,560
was essentially for me and a lot of

1286
00:45:22,870 --> 00:45:21,839
people in new zealand a kind of a

1287
00:45:25,030 --> 00:45:22,880
foundation

1288
00:45:26,630 --> 00:45:25,040
moment where you suddenly realized that

1289
00:45:29,750 --> 00:45:26,640
governments didn't

1290
00:45:33,109 --> 00:45:29,760
necessarily tell you the truth about

1291
00:45:33,829 --> 00:45:33,119
what happened and i became privy to the

1292
00:45:37,349 --> 00:45:33,839
fact that

1293
00:45:40,790 --> 00:45:37,359
um the americans had had a role

1294
00:45:42,470 --> 00:45:40,800
in dampening down coverage of the issue

1295
00:45:43,430 --> 00:45:42,480
i had a brief conversation with the

1296
00:45:45,589 --> 00:45:43,440
former

1297
00:45:46,790 --> 00:45:45,599
prime minister robert muldoon many years

1298
00:45:49,030 --> 00:45:46,800
later and

1299
00:45:51,030 --> 00:45:49,040
muldoon actually admitted to me that the

1300
00:45:52,309 --> 00:45:51,040
americans had been involved at a very

1301
00:45:54,230 --> 00:45:52,319
intense level

1302
00:45:57,349 --> 00:45:54,240
in discussions about what the public

1303
00:46:01,829 --> 00:45:57,359
should be told about the kaikoura ufo

1304
00:46:04,230 --> 00:46:01,839
so it made me realize that the

1305
00:46:05,270 --> 00:46:04,240
the agencies of the state for some

1306
00:46:07,910 --> 00:46:05,280
reason

1307
00:46:08,710 --> 00:46:07,920
were trying to dampen down awareness of

1308
00:46:12,069 --> 00:46:08,720
the ufo

1309
00:46:14,790 --> 00:46:12,079
issue and that i suppose twigged my

1310
00:46:15,829 --> 00:46:14,800
senses it made me suspicious it made me

1311
00:46:17,910 --> 00:46:15,839
think gosh there

1312
00:46:20,790 --> 00:46:17,920
might be something to this i should look

1313
00:46:23,990 --> 00:46:20,800
at this as a journalist

1314
00:46:25,829 --> 00:46:24,000
very very interesting all of that um

1315
00:46:27,349 --> 00:46:25,839
i had never heard of that case and i'm

1316
00:46:29,349 --> 00:46:27,359
going to to look into it

1317
00:46:30,870 --> 00:46:29,359
here's uh irene's got a question again i

1318
00:46:32,390 --> 00:46:30,880
just want to post this one more chat

1319
00:46:36,069 --> 00:46:32,400
question up here

1320
00:46:38,470 --> 00:46:36,079
from jules uh what do you think about

1321
00:46:39,829 --> 00:46:38,480
the media relatively quiet since the

1322
00:46:42,870 --> 00:46:39,839
reports release

1323
00:46:46,230 --> 00:46:42,880
prior to the lease we were getting leaks

1324
00:46:47,750 --> 00:46:46,240
every other day look uh i i'm really

1325
00:46:50,870 --> 00:46:47,760
worried at the moment that

1326
00:46:52,390 --> 00:46:50,880
um there is a great story there

1327
00:46:54,150 --> 00:46:52,400
i mean no doubt at all that the

1328
00:46:56,550 --> 00:46:54,160
phenomenon whatever it is

1329
00:46:57,589 --> 00:46:56,560
is real that there is a genuine

1330
00:47:00,390 --> 00:46:57,599
anomalous

1331
00:47:01,750 --> 00:47:00,400
mystery of objects doing crazy things in

1332
00:47:04,309 --> 00:47:01,760
our skies

1333
00:47:06,150 --> 00:47:04,319
and i think as a mainstream media

1334
00:47:06,950 --> 00:47:06,160
investigative journalist this warrants

1335
00:47:09,589 --> 00:47:06,960
intense

1336
00:47:11,910 --> 00:47:09,599
media investigation i i don't for the

1337
00:47:14,230 --> 00:47:11,920
life of me know why people

1338
00:47:15,430 --> 00:47:14,240
uh as i saw recently at the pentagon

1339
00:47:16,870 --> 00:47:15,440
somebody asked a question at the

1340
00:47:18,309 --> 00:47:16,880
pentagon press briefing

1341
00:47:20,549 --> 00:47:18,319
and there was this kind of nervous

1342
00:47:23,030 --> 00:47:20,559
titter that took place as the question

1343
00:47:25,430 --> 00:47:23,040
was asked because it was about ufos

1344
00:47:27,190 --> 00:47:25,440
and even the spokesperson this pentagon

1345
00:47:28,069 --> 00:47:27,200
spokesperson sort of treated it with

1346
00:47:32,390 --> 00:47:28,079
kind of mock

1347
00:47:34,710 --> 00:47:32,400
irony as they answered frankly

1348
00:47:36,790 --> 00:47:34,720
i think what's still happening is there

1349
00:47:38,710 --> 00:47:36,800
is a bit of a backlash happening inside

1350
00:47:40,630 --> 00:47:38,720
the defense department my own sources

1351
00:47:42,470 --> 00:47:40,640
tell me that there is an attempt by the

1352
00:47:43,270 --> 00:47:42,480
u.s air force to shut this whole issue

1353
00:47:46,309 --> 00:47:43,280
down

1354
00:47:49,670 --> 00:47:46,319
they don't want this and frankly if if

1355
00:47:50,309 --> 00:47:49,680
american citizens want congressional

1356
00:47:51,829 --> 00:47:50,319
hearings

1357
00:47:53,109 --> 00:47:51,839
they're going to have to scream for them

1358
00:47:54,630 --> 00:47:53,119
they're going to have to make sure they

1359
00:47:56,470 --> 00:47:54,640
push hard for them because

1360
00:47:58,069 --> 00:47:56,480
it's by no means a certainty and even

1361
00:47:59,750 --> 00:47:58,079
though you've got good people like chris

1362
00:48:02,309 --> 00:47:59,760
mellon and louis lozando

1363
00:48:03,030 --> 00:48:02,319
and others in the congress who i've also

1364
00:48:04,829 --> 00:48:03,040
spoken to

1365
00:48:06,309 --> 00:48:04,839
who are pushing for congressional

1366
00:48:08,150 --> 00:48:06,319
hearings one

1367
00:48:09,589 --> 00:48:08,160
i don't think you can assume that they

1368
00:48:10,870 --> 00:48:09,599
will happen at all or

1369
00:48:12,950 --> 00:48:10,880
i don't think you can assume that they

1370
00:48:15,430 --> 00:48:12,960
will be public hearings

1371
00:48:17,589 --> 00:48:15,440
there are people in certain sections of

1372
00:48:19,190 --> 00:48:17,599
the military notably the u.s air force

1373
00:48:20,390 --> 00:48:19,200
who i'm told are trying to shut this

1374
00:48:22,309 --> 00:48:20,400
issue down

1375
00:48:24,230 --> 00:48:22,319
and yeah you're not seeing any leaks at

1376
00:48:26,950 --> 00:48:24,240
the moment because

1377
00:48:28,790 --> 00:48:26,960
there is a a very determined effort to

1378
00:48:31,030 --> 00:48:28,800
shut this story down and

1379
00:48:32,630 --> 00:48:31,040
leaks only happen if officials feel safe

1380
00:48:34,950 --> 00:48:32,640
about leaking stuff

1381
00:48:37,109 --> 00:48:34,960
and when you have the the vengeance of

1382
00:48:39,030 --> 00:48:37,119
the state being wreaked on anyone who

1383
00:48:39,910 --> 00:48:39,040
breaches a special access program by

1384
00:48:43,190 --> 00:48:39,920
talking about

1385
00:48:45,109 --> 00:48:43,200
um you know a

1386
00:48:46,549 --> 00:48:45,119
secure defense project then i can

1387
00:48:48,150 --> 00:48:46,559
understand why

1388
00:48:50,630 --> 00:48:48,160
one of the things i've actually sort of

1389
00:48:52,950 --> 00:48:50,640
said quite openly in the last few weeks

1390
00:48:55,750 --> 00:48:52,960
is as a journalist i feel a

1391
00:48:58,549 --> 00:48:55,760
responsibility to make sure that

1392
00:48:59,990 --> 00:48:58,559
we don't do stories that prejudice

1393
00:49:02,470 --> 00:49:00,000
national security

1394
00:49:04,069 --> 00:49:02,480
issues if there's a legitimate national

1395
00:49:06,230 --> 00:49:04,079
security concern

1396
00:49:08,230 --> 00:49:06,240
that or a public safety concern that

1397
00:49:10,230 --> 00:49:08,240
needs to be protected

1398
00:49:11,270 --> 00:49:10,240
by protecting the release of certain

1399
00:49:13,829 --> 00:49:11,280
information then

1400
00:49:14,790 --> 00:49:13,839
let's hear it i mean i've invited people

1401
00:49:17,670 --> 00:49:14,800
privately

1402
00:49:19,589 --> 00:49:17,680
at a senior level in in various of your

1403
00:49:21,349 --> 00:49:19,599
three-letter agencies to explain to me

1404
00:49:24,390 --> 00:49:21,359
why we shouldn't

1405
00:49:27,270 --> 00:49:24,400
do this story and i'm not convinced

1406
00:49:28,470 --> 00:49:27,280
that the reason why people are trying to

1407
00:49:31,030 --> 00:49:28,480
shut this down

1408
00:49:32,950 --> 00:49:31,040
isn't out of extraordinary embarrassment

1409
00:49:34,309 --> 00:49:32,960
that this issue is finally coming out

1410
00:49:36,870 --> 00:49:34,319
into the open

1411
00:49:38,950 --> 00:49:36,880
i suspect it's as simple as there are

1412
00:49:40,870 --> 00:49:38,960
people in the united states air force

1413
00:49:42,069 --> 00:49:40,880
who are either worried about their own

1414
00:49:43,990 --> 00:49:42,079
position

1415
00:49:45,349 --> 00:49:44,000
or who are frankly embarrassed about

1416
00:49:47,430 --> 00:49:45,359
having to admit

1417
00:49:48,870 --> 00:49:47,440
that there is this advanced technology

1418
00:49:51,030 --> 00:49:48,880
operating in our skies

1419
00:49:53,109 --> 00:49:51,040
oceans and orbit that they they have

1420
00:49:55,349 --> 00:49:53,119
absolutely no power over because

1421
00:49:57,030 --> 00:49:55,359
so much of america's sense of itself is

1422
00:50:00,230 --> 00:49:57,040
based on a notion of

1423
00:50:03,349 --> 00:50:00,240
military dominance of hegemony and

1424
00:50:04,230 --> 00:50:03,359
what this advanced technology that's

1425
00:50:07,030 --> 00:50:04,240
what it is

1426
00:50:07,829 --> 00:50:07,040
represents is something that is way

1427
00:50:10,870 --> 00:50:07,839
beyond

1428
00:50:14,790 --> 00:50:10,880
known human technology including america

1429
00:50:16,470 --> 00:50:14,800
including russia including china and

1430
00:50:18,790 --> 00:50:16,480
let's assume that there isn't some dark

1431
00:50:21,190 --> 00:50:18,800
conspiracy inside the u.s military

1432
00:50:23,030 --> 00:50:21,200
hiding a back engineering project which

1433
00:50:24,790 --> 00:50:23,040
i'm skeptical about but let's assume

1434
00:50:26,790 --> 00:50:24,800
that there isn't

1435
00:50:28,069 --> 00:50:26,800
maybe the most plausible explanation is

1436
00:50:29,750 --> 00:50:28,079
that there is um

1437
00:50:31,589 --> 00:50:29,760
a group of officials in the u.s air

1438
00:50:33,349 --> 00:50:31,599
force who frankly just don't want to

1439
00:50:34,790 --> 00:50:33,359
have to face up to acknowledging that to

1440
00:50:35,910 --> 00:50:34,800
the american public because it's

1441
00:50:38,230 --> 00:50:35,920
embarrassing

1442
00:50:39,990 --> 00:50:38,240
we're spending trillions of dollars or

1443
00:50:42,390 --> 00:50:40,000
at least you guys actually we are too

1444
00:50:43,829 --> 00:50:42,400
in australia we've bought your f 22 and

1445
00:50:45,589 --> 00:50:43,839
your f-35

1446
00:50:48,150 --> 00:50:45,599
and we're spending a fortune on you know

1447
00:50:49,109 --> 00:50:48,160
the latest advanced aerospace technology

1448
00:50:53,190 --> 00:50:49,119
from our ally

1449
00:50:55,589 --> 00:50:53,200
america and um frankly it doesn't cut it

1450
00:50:56,950 --> 00:50:55,599
against whatever this phenomenon is it's

1451
00:51:00,309 --> 00:50:56,960
run rings around it

1452
00:51:02,549 --> 00:51:00,319
um you know the tic tac ufo uh

1453
00:51:04,750 --> 00:51:02,559
literally stuck its tongue out at the

1454
00:51:06,309 --> 00:51:04,760
most advanced fighters of the day in

1455
00:51:09,190 --> 00:51:06,319
2004

1456
00:51:09,589 --> 00:51:09,200
and um you know ran them into the dust

1457
00:51:11,349 --> 00:51:09,599
uh

1458
00:51:13,190 --> 00:51:11,359
that's a really interesting thing that

1459
00:51:14,069 --> 00:51:13,200
maybe if i was the head of the u.s air

1460
00:51:17,589 --> 00:51:14,079
force

1461
00:51:19,510 --> 00:51:17,599
i wouldn't want talked about much either

1462
00:51:20,870 --> 00:51:19,520
right right um irene i think we're going

1463
00:51:21,990 --> 00:51:20,880
to table your question to the next

1464
00:51:24,390 --> 00:51:22,000
segment we've got

1465
00:51:26,150 --> 00:51:24,400
just three three more minutes before we

1466
00:51:27,510 --> 00:51:26,160
we're going to take a three minute break

1467
00:51:29,510 --> 00:51:27,520
and then we're going to continue on on

1468
00:51:30,069 --> 00:51:29,520
youtube we're going to end the show on

1469
00:51:33,510 --> 00:51:30,079
kgr

1470
00:51:34,790 --> 00:51:33,520
a radio so

1471
00:51:36,870 --> 00:51:34,800
one of the things that is never

1472
00:51:39,190 --> 00:51:36,880
discussed i just want to bring up

1473
00:51:41,270 --> 00:51:39,200
uh quickly and i hope those uh with you

1474
00:51:44,790 --> 00:51:41,280
that are listening live hang in with us

1475
00:51:47,349 --> 00:51:44,800
um and that is one of the things that

1476
00:51:49,030 --> 00:51:47,359
you must have heard this many times is

1477
00:51:51,510 --> 00:51:49,040
they're saying well it must be

1478
00:51:52,390 --> 00:51:51,520
a black technology or secret technology

1479
00:51:55,750 --> 00:51:52,400
but

1480
00:51:58,870 --> 00:51:55,760
what's never followed up with is that

1481
00:52:01,349 --> 00:51:58,880
well what about back in 1947

1482
00:52:03,109 --> 00:52:01,359
when something was seen going 22 000

1483
00:52:05,109 --> 00:52:03,119
miles an hour across

1484
00:52:06,470 --> 00:52:05,119
you know the radar screen in canada and

1485
00:52:09,430 --> 00:52:06,480
you know on and on and on

1486
00:52:11,190 --> 00:52:09,440
all through history since the 40s uh

1487
00:52:11,990 --> 00:52:11,200
when we've had this technology we have

1488
00:52:15,270 --> 00:52:12,000
seen

1489
00:52:16,230 --> 00:52:15,280
this unusual uh you know tech technology

1490
00:52:19,670 --> 00:52:16,240
we have no

1491
00:52:21,190 --> 00:52:19,680
no idea how it how it works and

1492
00:52:23,430 --> 00:52:21,200
no one ever brings that up they just say

1493
00:52:26,150 --> 00:52:23,440
yes it could be black project

1494
00:52:26,549 --> 00:52:26,160
i think the point you're making is that

1495
00:52:28,309 --> 00:52:26,559
if

1496
00:52:31,589 --> 00:52:28,319
this is a recently discovered u.s

1497
00:52:33,829 --> 00:52:31,599
aerospace black technology

1498
00:52:34,790 --> 00:52:33,839
it must have been around since the 1940s

1499
00:52:36,309 --> 00:52:34,800
because

1500
00:52:38,069 --> 00:52:36,319
we've been ceiling we've been seeing

1501
00:52:39,750 --> 00:52:38,079
this phenomenon ever since then and

1502
00:52:41,829 --> 00:52:39,760
this is something that i i think i

1503
00:52:44,069 --> 00:52:41,839
acknowledge the inconsistency i mean

1504
00:52:44,950 --> 00:52:44,079
whatever this phenomenon is it's been

1505
00:52:46,950 --> 00:52:44,960
around

1506
00:52:48,870 --> 00:52:46,960
i'm told from the files that i've seen

1507
00:52:50,630 --> 00:52:48,880
in australia's archives and certainly in

1508
00:52:52,230 --> 00:52:50,640
your archives in america that i've spent

1509
00:52:53,910 --> 00:52:52,240
a lot of time looking at

1510
00:52:56,630 --> 00:52:53,920
i mean there are sightings going right

1511
00:52:58,630 --> 00:52:56,640
back to the 1920s and the 1930s

1512
00:53:00,870 --> 00:52:58,640
and if you go back even further to the

1513
00:53:04,069 --> 00:53:00,880
newspapers that record the

1514
00:53:07,430 --> 00:53:04,079
mysterious flying airship sightings

1515
00:53:09,510 --> 00:53:07,440
uh across america in the late 1890s

1516
00:53:10,710 --> 00:53:09,520
i mean there was a phenomenon even back

1517
00:53:13,270 --> 00:53:10,720
in the 19th century

1518
00:53:14,069 --> 00:53:13,280
so yeah i mean unless america's had

1519
00:53:15,829 --> 00:53:14,079
black technology

1520
00:53:17,510 --> 00:53:15,839
that it's been sitting on for the last

1521
00:53:21,190 --> 00:53:17,520
um you know

1522
00:53:23,270 --> 00:53:21,200
150 years there is definitely

1523
00:53:24,790 --> 00:53:23,280
something advanced which has been

1524
00:53:28,230 --> 00:53:24,800
operating in

1525
00:53:31,349 --> 00:53:28,240
uh on the planet for you know a good

1526
00:53:33,589 --> 00:53:31,359
100 plus years and i don't think it cuts

1527
00:53:35,510 --> 00:53:33,599
the mustard to say that this is american

1528
00:53:36,950 --> 00:53:35,520
black technology especially not when you

1529
00:53:39,990 --> 00:53:36,960
have people like

1530
00:53:42,069 --> 00:53:40,000
chris mellon uh and

1531
00:53:43,750 --> 00:53:42,079
implicitly also the sort of the findings

1532
00:53:45,750 --> 00:53:43,760
that are referred to in the uap

1533
00:53:47,270 --> 00:53:45,760
task force report they suggest that it's

1534
00:53:50,870 --> 00:53:47,280
not american

1535
00:53:52,549 --> 00:53:50,880
technology and numerous congressmen

1536
00:53:53,349 --> 00:53:52,559
senators have basically said that as

1537
00:53:55,430 --> 00:53:53,359
well

1538
00:53:57,990 --> 00:53:55,440
cia directors you know there's an

1539
00:53:59,270 --> 00:53:58,000
implicit acceptance that whatever this

1540
00:54:00,790 --> 00:53:59,280
is it's not

1541
00:54:02,710 --> 00:54:00,800
something that's being worked on in the

1542
00:54:04,549 --> 00:54:02,720
black that america hasn't developed

1543
00:54:05,190 --> 00:54:04,559
anti-gravity technology in the black

1544
00:54:07,750 --> 00:54:05,200
that it's

1545
00:54:10,150 --> 00:54:07,760
zooming around in our airspace i'm not

1546
00:54:11,829 --> 00:54:10,160
so sure to be honest because i one of

1547
00:54:13,349 --> 00:54:11,839
the things that intrigues me is an

1548
00:54:16,549 --> 00:54:13,359
incident that i've covered

1549
00:54:17,670 --> 00:54:16,559
in my book and also in my documentary

1550
00:54:19,990 --> 00:54:17,680
where

1551
00:54:21,030 --> 00:54:20,000
when the americans became aware of a

1552
00:54:24,309 --> 00:54:21,040
giant

1553
00:54:26,150 --> 00:54:24,319
black triangle craft that was seen by

1554
00:54:28,750 --> 00:54:26,160
multiple witnesses over

1555
00:54:30,549 --> 00:54:28,760
north west cape and western australia in

1556
00:54:34,150 --> 00:54:30,559
1991

1557
00:54:36,630 --> 00:54:34,160
there was a high level of in curiosity

1558
00:54:38,150 --> 00:54:36,640
by the american forces at northwest cape

1559
00:54:40,069 --> 00:54:38,160
at the harold holt

1560
00:54:42,309 --> 00:54:40,079
naval communications station where they

1561
00:54:44,789 --> 00:54:42,319
literally tried to shut down

1562
00:54:45,829 --> 00:54:44,799
any investigation and any sort of public

1563
00:54:47,910 --> 00:54:45,839
awareness of

1564
00:54:49,990 --> 00:54:47,920
whatever that phenomenon was that was

1565
00:54:51,829 --> 00:54:50,000
seen by numerous witnesses i'm

1566
00:54:53,109 --> 00:54:51,839
wondering what is wrong with the term

1567
00:54:55,910 --> 00:54:53,119
alien

1568
00:54:56,470 --> 00:54:55,920
it's a broad term which just says that

1569
00:54:59,510 --> 00:54:56,480
it's not

1570
00:55:01,990 --> 00:54:59,520
us what is wrong with using alien what

1571
00:55:04,069 --> 00:55:02,000
i guess the stigma is still there ross

1572
00:55:06,069 --> 00:55:04,079
your thoughts

1573
00:55:07,430 --> 00:55:06,079
i think because i'm not saying it's

1574
00:55:11,190 --> 00:55:07,440
wrong i'm just saying

1575
00:55:13,910 --> 00:55:11,200
to be more careful i i think we

1576
00:55:15,750 --> 00:55:13,920
we have to acknowledge that the word

1577
00:55:20,150 --> 00:55:15,760
alien a bit like the word ufo

1578
00:55:22,789 --> 00:55:20,160
has become associated stigmatized with

1579
00:55:23,750 --> 00:55:22,799
classic cultural iconography images of

1580
00:55:25,829 --> 00:55:23,760
little green men

1581
00:55:26,950 --> 00:55:25,839
and people in flying sources from other

1582
00:55:29,030 --> 00:55:26,960
planets

1583
00:55:29,990 --> 00:55:29,040
and and that's part of the problem part

1584
00:55:33,670 --> 00:55:30,000
of the problem is

1585
00:55:36,390 --> 00:55:33,680
that the the uap

1586
00:55:38,549 --> 00:55:36,400
issue demands to be taken seriously but

1587
00:55:41,589 --> 00:55:38,559
the semantics that are being used

1588
00:55:44,069 --> 00:55:41,599
like alien ufo

1589
00:55:44,950 --> 00:55:44,079
um i think in many ways they're

1590
00:55:47,510 --> 00:55:44,960
crippling

1591
00:55:47,990 --> 00:55:47,520
the willingness of the public and of

1592
00:55:49,829 --> 00:55:48,000
opinion

1593
00:55:52,150 --> 00:55:49,839
leaders to actually start engaging with

1594
00:55:54,069 --> 00:55:52,160
and taking the phenomenon seriously

1595
00:55:55,990 --> 00:55:54,079
so maybe it's important to consider

1596
00:55:58,710 --> 00:55:56,000
coming a little bit their way

1597
00:55:59,750 --> 00:55:58,720
and adjusting the semantics that's what

1598
00:56:02,630 --> 00:55:59,760
that's why i've

1599
00:56:03,670 --> 00:56:02,640
considered using the word uap a lot in

1600
00:56:06,710 --> 00:56:03,680
my book

1601
00:56:08,950 --> 00:56:06,720
because it's a less loaded term

1602
00:56:10,390 --> 00:56:08,960
alien i think in most people's books

1603
00:56:11,190 --> 00:56:10,400
even though it's not meant to you're

1604
00:56:14,309 --> 00:56:11,200
quite right

1605
00:56:18,150 --> 00:56:14,319
it indicates something that's not known

1606
00:56:20,230 --> 00:56:18,160
not not human perhaps i'm drawn to the

1607
00:56:22,309 --> 00:56:20,240
fact that i'm intrigued by the fact that

1608
00:56:23,910 --> 00:56:22,319
people like louis lozando increasingly

1609
00:56:25,069 --> 00:56:23,920
in some of their interviews have talked

1610
00:56:27,430 --> 00:56:25,079
about

1611
00:56:29,030 --> 00:56:27,440
intra-terrestrials as possibly being the

1612
00:56:31,030 --> 00:56:29,040
explanation

1613
00:56:33,270 --> 00:56:31,040
that what we're talking about here might

1614
00:56:35,430 --> 00:56:33,280
not be not of this world

1615
00:56:37,510 --> 00:56:35,440
but part of this world that it's always

1616
00:56:40,390 --> 00:56:37,520
been here with us

1617
00:56:42,150 --> 00:56:40,400
i'm intrigued by that and i guess i'm

1618
00:56:42,630 --> 00:56:42,160
just worried that the language that we

1619
00:56:43,990 --> 00:56:42,640
use

1620
00:56:46,870 --> 00:56:44,000
we have to be prepared for the

1621
00:56:49,670 --> 00:56:46,880
possibility that it's perhaps perceived

1622
00:56:51,510 --> 00:56:49,680
in a way that doesn't assist people's

1623
00:56:53,910 --> 00:56:51,520
understanding of the issue

1624
00:56:56,470 --> 00:56:53,920
so i try and use less stigmatized

1625
00:56:58,710 --> 00:56:56,480
language just for that very reason

1626
00:57:00,069 --> 00:56:58,720
well i can't i certainly can't change my

1627
00:57:01,710 --> 00:57:00,079
show name to

1628
00:57:03,829 --> 00:57:01,720
podcast uap at this point

1629
00:57:06,069 --> 00:57:03,839
[Laughter]

1630
00:57:07,190 --> 00:57:06,079
you know speaking of that uh i get along

1631
00:57:10,470 --> 00:57:07,200
very well with dr

1632
00:57:13,990 --> 00:57:10,480
richard haynes um that he was

1633
00:57:16,069 --> 00:57:14,000
involved in nycap you know and he said

1634
00:57:17,750 --> 00:57:16,079
he would love to be on my show but he

1635
00:57:20,470 --> 00:57:17,760
can't be on my show

1636
00:57:22,870 --> 00:57:20,480
because it said the word ufo and they

1637
00:57:23,910 --> 00:57:22,880
were using uap this uh these i'm not

1638
00:57:26,150 --> 00:57:23,920
sure if you know

1639
00:57:26,950 --> 00:57:26,160
who nycap is are you familiar with who

1640
00:57:30,470 --> 00:57:26,960
they are yeah

1641
00:57:32,470 --> 00:57:30,480
yeah yeah so but anyway um yeah there is

1642
00:57:34,789 --> 00:57:32,480
a stigma and it's too bad

1643
00:57:36,950 --> 00:57:34,799
but um you know a lot of things this

1644
00:57:40,390 --> 00:57:36,960
just happens in any culture in any

1645
00:57:43,589 --> 00:57:40,400
you know any particular um say trend or

1646
00:57:45,589 --> 00:57:43,599
word you know can be you know uh

1647
00:57:46,630 --> 00:57:45,599
the little green men type of thing there

1648
00:57:48,309 --> 00:57:46,640
was actually

1649
00:57:50,069 --> 00:57:48,319
a sighting at one point where people

1650
00:57:51,750 --> 00:57:50,079
actually did say they saw a green man

1651
00:57:53,750 --> 00:57:51,760
and it made me wonder

1652
00:57:55,750 --> 00:57:53,760
if that's where that all started from

1653
00:57:56,470 --> 00:57:55,760
you know that that one sighting where

1654
00:57:58,470 --> 00:57:56,480
this uh

1655
00:57:59,510 --> 00:57:58,480
this was back in the 40s i think it was

1656
00:58:01,910 --> 00:57:59,520
or 50s

1657
00:58:03,349 --> 00:58:01,920
where they said they saw green green men

1658
00:58:05,510 --> 00:58:03,359
coming out of a craft

1659
00:58:07,270 --> 00:58:05,520
i mean i i guess green is good as any

1660
00:58:09,670 --> 00:58:07,280
other color right

1661
00:58:10,870 --> 00:58:09,680
green grey yeah i mean you know i just

1662
00:58:13,270 --> 00:58:10,880
don't know i mean i've

1663
00:58:15,109 --> 00:58:13,280
i've spoken to people who've claimed to

1664
00:58:18,150 --> 00:58:15,119
have engaged with

1665
00:58:20,470 --> 00:58:18,160
non-human life forms um

1666
00:58:21,750 --> 00:58:20,480
and i i don't know what to make of it

1667
00:58:23,510 --> 00:58:21,760
the difficulty that i have as a

1668
00:58:24,630 --> 00:58:23,520
journalist is it's impossible for me to

1669
00:58:26,630 --> 00:58:24,640
research it

1670
00:58:28,710 --> 00:58:26,640
because unless i can unless i can

1671
00:58:31,510 --> 00:58:28,720
experiment and verify that phenomenon

1672
00:58:32,630 --> 00:58:31,520
myself it's impossible whereas what i

1673
00:58:35,430 --> 00:58:32,640
can do with

1674
00:58:37,990 --> 00:58:35,440
sightings phenomena is i can talk about

1675
00:58:39,750 --> 00:58:38,000
radar telemetry i can talk about video i

1676
00:58:41,750 --> 00:58:39,760
can talk about at fleur imaging and i

1677
00:58:43,510 --> 00:58:41,760
can test the veracity of the

1678
00:58:45,030 --> 00:58:43,520
the first person witnesses who

1679
00:58:46,309 --> 00:58:45,040
corroborate each other who say that

1680
00:58:48,470 --> 00:58:46,319
they've seen it

1681
00:58:50,309 --> 00:58:48,480
i mean if there was a i mean the rua

1682
00:58:52,470 --> 00:58:50,319
sighting i'm quite excited to

1683
00:58:53,430 --> 00:58:52,480
to hear and see the film that's coming

1684
00:58:56,710 --> 00:58:53,440
out soon i think

1685
00:58:58,069 --> 00:58:56,720
ariel uh it's aerial phenomenon

1686
00:59:00,069 --> 00:58:58,079
yeah and i i don't know when that's

1687
00:59:02,870 --> 00:59:00,079
coming up but i'm i love those

1688
00:59:04,309 --> 00:59:02,880
beautiful little great well i love those

1689
00:59:05,670 --> 00:59:04,319
beautiful little kitties that were on

1690
00:59:08,069 --> 00:59:05,680
the bbc image

1691
00:59:08,870 --> 00:59:08,079
uh yeah i think it's an amazing story

1692
00:59:12,309 --> 00:59:08,880
and

1693
00:59:14,549 --> 00:59:12,319
it's interesting because um we have a a

1694
00:59:15,670 --> 00:59:14,559
similar parallel that irene and i know

1695
00:59:18,630 --> 00:59:15,680
well which is the

1696
00:59:19,670 --> 00:59:18,640
westall 1966 incident in australia in

1697
00:59:26,710 --> 00:59:19,680
melbourne

1698
00:59:27,270 --> 00:59:26,720
and back in april 1966 kids say they saw

1699
00:59:29,670 --> 00:59:27,280
three

1700
00:59:30,870 --> 00:59:29,680
elliptical metallic disks hovering over

1701
00:59:33,109 --> 00:59:30,880
the school

1702
00:59:34,470 --> 00:59:33,119
and one of the people i've interviewed

1703
00:59:36,710 --> 00:59:34,480
terry she describes

1704
00:59:38,950 --> 00:59:36,720
literally seeing one of these craft

1705
00:59:39,910 --> 00:59:38,960
either landed or hovering just above the

1706
00:59:43,510 --> 00:59:39,920
ground

1707
00:59:45,990 --> 00:59:43,520
in a clearing known as the grange in

1708
00:59:47,270 --> 00:59:46,000
near the school and um she could

1709
00:59:49,510 --> 00:59:47,280
actually hold her hand

1710
00:59:50,470 --> 00:59:49,520
and feel the heat from just a few meters

1711
00:59:52,630 --> 00:59:50,480
away

1712
00:59:54,710 --> 00:59:52,640
i mean that's phenomenal evidence

1713
00:59:57,190 --> 00:59:54,720
especially when it's backed by

1714
00:59:58,870 --> 00:59:57,200
a former teacher of the day andrew

1715
01:00:02,309 --> 00:59:58,880
greenwood who says he also

1716
01:00:04,789 --> 01:00:02,319
saw a craft and that it was metallic it

1717
01:00:05,589 --> 01:00:04,799
wasn't a balloon i mean they didn't see

1718
01:00:08,150 --> 01:00:05,599
entities

1719
01:00:10,309 --> 01:00:08,160
uh life forms nothing came out of those

1720
01:00:10,950 --> 01:00:10,319
craft but they're absolutely very clear

1721
01:00:12,710 --> 01:00:10,960
that

1722
01:00:14,309 --> 01:00:12,720
you know these school kids hundreds of

1723
01:00:17,990 --> 01:00:14,319
school kids saw

1724
01:00:21,190 --> 01:00:18,000
craft metallic vehicles moving

1725
01:00:22,309 --> 01:00:21,200
intelligently doing things that are far

1726
01:00:24,950 --> 01:00:22,319
beyond

1727
01:00:26,230 --> 01:00:24,960
acknowledged known terrestrial human

1728
01:00:29,510 --> 01:00:26,240
technology

1729
01:00:31,910 --> 01:00:29,520
now why do we ignore that we shouldn't

1730
01:00:34,150 --> 01:00:31,920
and indeed the media at the time again

1731
01:00:37,430 --> 01:00:34,160
allowed itself to be snowed

1732
01:00:39,349 --> 01:00:37,440
um the video the film that was taken of

1733
01:00:41,349 --> 01:00:39,359
a news report of the incident

1734
01:00:43,190 --> 01:00:41,359
is no longer to be found in the archives

1735
01:00:43,750 --> 01:00:43,200
of the tv station where i once worked

1736
01:00:46,309 --> 01:00:43,760
and

1737
01:00:46,870 --> 01:00:46,319
i know that because i i spent a good day

1738
01:00:49,109 --> 01:00:46,880
trying to

1739
01:00:50,630 --> 01:00:49,119
go through the archives of gtv the

1740
01:00:53,030 --> 01:00:50,640
melbourne channel 9 studio

1741
01:00:54,630 --> 01:00:53,040
trying to find a film canister

1742
01:00:55,910 --> 01:00:54,640
containing this and i know a colleague

1743
01:00:57,750 --> 01:00:55,920
of mine shane

1744
01:00:58,950 --> 01:00:57,760
shane ryan's tried to find the same

1745
01:01:01,750 --> 01:00:58,960
thing so

1746
01:01:02,630 --> 01:01:01,760
i mean there are it's very interesting

1747
01:01:04,950 --> 01:01:02,640
because i'm

1748
01:01:06,150 --> 01:01:04,960
i'm always reluctant as a journalist to

1749
01:01:08,390 --> 01:01:06,160
believe in

1750
01:01:10,630 --> 01:01:08,400
cover-ups more often than not you know

1751
01:01:12,150 --> 01:01:10,640
we have a saying in my line of work i'll

1752
01:01:14,950 --> 01:01:12,160
i'll say it politely

1753
01:01:15,750 --> 01:01:14,960
always assume a screw-up before a

1754
01:01:19,030 --> 01:01:15,760
cover-up

1755
01:01:23,109 --> 01:01:20,870
more often than not it's an incompetent

1756
01:01:23,670 --> 01:01:23,119
bureaucrat that has just failed to do

1757
01:01:25,589 --> 01:01:23,680
something

1758
01:01:27,910 --> 01:01:25,599
rather than somebody consciously making

1759
01:01:30,069 --> 01:01:27,920
an effort to try and hide something

1760
01:01:32,069 --> 01:01:30,079
and the reason why is because frankly

1761
01:01:32,950 --> 01:01:32,079
politicians blab they can't keep their

1762
01:01:34,950 --> 01:01:32,960
mouths shut

1763
01:01:36,789 --> 01:01:34,960
most leaks come from the very person

1764
01:01:38,789 --> 01:01:36,799
who's declining the leak in the first

1765
01:01:40,549 --> 01:01:38,799
place you know i've actually been leaked

1766
01:01:42,470 --> 01:01:40,559
stuff by federal ministers in our

1767
01:01:44,390 --> 01:01:42,480
government and then they've done a leaks

1768
01:01:45,829 --> 01:01:44,400
inquiry the following week announcing

1769
01:01:47,670 --> 01:01:45,839
that they're trying to find the source

1770
01:01:49,349 --> 01:01:47,680
of this outrageous leak

1771
01:01:51,109 --> 01:01:49,359
that has compromised security in their

1772
01:01:52,789 --> 01:01:51,119
department i know it's the bloody person

1773
01:01:54,069 --> 01:01:52,799
who's announcing the leaks inquiry in

1774
01:01:57,349 --> 01:01:54,079
the first place

1775
01:01:58,870 --> 01:01:57,359
but the um the thing with westall and

1776
01:02:00,630 --> 01:01:58,880
the thing about a lot of these cases

1777
01:02:03,349 --> 01:02:00,640
that really intrigues me

1778
01:02:04,230 --> 01:02:03,359
is there is being there has been a

1779
01:02:06,390 --> 01:02:04,240
cover-up

1780
01:02:08,390 --> 01:02:06,400
i mean i mean no doubt whatsoever that

1781
01:02:11,670 --> 01:02:08,400
there was a concerted

1782
01:02:14,789 --> 01:02:11,680
government military effort to intimidate

1783
01:02:17,910 --> 01:02:14,799
people from speaking about what they saw

1784
01:02:20,710 --> 01:02:17,920
at westall in april 1966.

1785
01:02:21,670 --> 01:02:20,720
not only were children warned in a

1786
01:02:23,510 --> 01:02:21,680
school assembly

1787
01:02:24,870 --> 01:02:23,520
in front of officials that had gathered

1788
01:02:26,789 --> 01:02:24,880
wearing uniforms

1789
01:02:28,789 --> 01:02:26,799
saying you know do not talk about this

1790
01:02:31,510 --> 01:02:28,799
you didn't see what you thought you saw

1791
01:02:33,510 --> 01:02:31,520
go home and forget about it one of the

1792
01:02:34,950 --> 01:02:33,520
teachers andrew greenwood told me and it

1793
01:02:36,870 --> 01:02:34,960
was the first time he'd gone

1794
01:02:37,990 --> 01:02:36,880
public allowing himself to be identified

1795
01:02:39,190 --> 01:02:38,000
on camera

1796
01:02:41,109 --> 01:02:39,200
in an interview that he did for the

1797
01:02:42,630 --> 01:02:41,119
documentary i made he actually talked

1798
01:02:45,349 --> 01:02:42,640
about the fact that

1799
01:02:47,430 --> 01:02:45,359
an air force officer and a man in

1800
01:02:49,430 --> 01:02:47,440
civilian clothes probably from our

1801
01:02:50,630 --> 01:02:49,440
police or intelligence services knocked

1802
01:02:52,950 --> 01:02:50,640
on his door

1803
01:02:54,470 --> 01:02:52,960
at his home late one night two weeks

1804
01:02:56,870 --> 01:02:54,480
after the incident

1805
01:02:59,190 --> 01:02:56,880
and threatened him they told him that if

1806
01:03:00,789 --> 01:02:59,200
he spoke about what he saw

1807
01:03:02,870 --> 01:03:00,799
he would lose his job as a school

1808
01:03:03,750 --> 01:03:02,880
teacher and they would slur him with a

1809
01:03:06,069 --> 01:03:03,760
defamatory

1810
01:03:06,870 --> 01:03:06,079
untrue allegation that he was an

1811
01:03:09,109 --> 01:03:06,880
alcoholic

1812
01:03:11,190 --> 01:03:09,119
that he was drinking on the job so he

1813
01:03:13,829 --> 01:03:11,200
kept quiet about it for decades and then

1814
01:03:16,549 --> 01:03:13,839
he started speaking about it because

1815
01:03:18,309 --> 01:03:16,559
like a lot of people he's angry and

1816
01:03:20,309 --> 01:03:18,319
annoyed that he felt that he was

1817
01:03:21,430 --> 01:03:20,319
intimidated to not talk about what he

1818
01:03:23,510 --> 01:03:21,440
saw

1819
01:03:25,510 --> 01:03:23,520
and this is the thing is that if there's

1820
01:03:28,710 --> 01:03:25,520
nothing there

1821
01:03:30,870 --> 01:03:28,720
been such a

1822
01:03:33,430 --> 01:03:30,880
a concerted effort by the military to

1823
01:03:35,750 --> 01:03:33,440
shut down this issue and to try and stop

1824
01:03:37,270 --> 01:03:35,760
public debate about this issue for so

1825
01:03:40,710 --> 01:03:37,280
many decades

1826
01:03:43,910 --> 01:03:40,720
and in my dealings with

1827
01:03:45,990 --> 01:03:43,920
officials and insiders defense

1828
01:03:47,270 --> 01:03:46,000
intelligence people scientists

1829
01:03:49,029 --> 01:03:47,280
who've agreed to speak to me

1830
01:03:51,750 --> 01:03:49,039
confidentially

1831
01:03:53,589 --> 01:03:51,760
i'm in absolutely no doubt that the

1832
01:03:56,950 --> 01:03:53,599
united states

1833
01:03:58,069 --> 01:03:56,960
probably also my government are engaging

1834
01:04:00,230 --> 01:03:58,079
with the uap

1835
01:04:01,430 --> 01:04:00,240
issue far more seriously than they care

1836
01:04:04,549 --> 01:04:01,440
to admit

1837
01:04:05,190 --> 01:04:04,559
and and that's interesting because the

1838
01:04:07,829 --> 01:04:05,200
public

1839
01:04:09,589 --> 01:04:07,839
has been led to believe for decades that

1840
01:04:11,029 --> 01:04:09,599
this is a subject that should be treated

1841
01:04:14,309 --> 01:04:11,039
with contempt

1842
01:04:16,230 --> 01:04:14,319
ridicule and taboo when the reality is

1843
01:04:17,990 --> 01:04:16,240
behind the scenes as we're now getting

1844
01:04:19,270 --> 01:04:18,000
these begrudging admissions from the

1845
01:04:22,549 --> 01:04:19,280
pentagon

1846
01:04:25,349 --> 01:04:22,559
it's real yeah well think of the

1847
01:04:28,789 --> 01:04:25,359
robinson panel back in 1953

1848
01:04:30,630 --> 01:04:28,799
uh was formed basically to you know

1849
01:04:31,910 --> 01:04:30,640
get the ridicule out there and that you

1850
01:04:34,789 --> 01:04:31,920
know to to

1851
01:04:35,190 --> 01:04:34,799
calm everyone down but you know i mean

1852
01:04:38,470 --> 01:04:35,200
that

1853
01:04:41,510 --> 01:04:38,480
of it

1854
01:04:42,630 --> 01:04:41,520
and you know it's it's it's really

1855
01:04:45,430 --> 01:04:42,640
something

1856
01:04:46,630 --> 01:04:45,440
that i i have said well a number of

1857
01:04:48,470 --> 01:04:46,640
times on the show that i've

1858
01:04:49,829 --> 01:04:48,480
said that and you said something very

1859
01:04:52,630 --> 01:04:49,839
similar is

1860
01:04:53,990 --> 01:04:52,640
i think that it's very possible that the

1861
01:04:56,789 --> 01:04:54,000
government really doesn't

1862
01:04:57,510 --> 01:04:56,799
know what it is and that's why they're

1863
01:05:00,549 --> 01:04:57,520
keeping it

1864
01:05:02,069 --> 01:05:00,559
as secret as possible because they

1865
01:05:04,309 --> 01:05:02,079
if they come out and say this

1866
01:05:05,910 --> 01:05:04,319
vulnerability that we have no way to

1867
01:05:08,630 --> 01:05:05,920
protect our skies

1868
01:05:09,510 --> 01:05:08,640
um you know that then who knows what

1869
01:05:11,109 --> 01:05:09,520
will happen i mean

1870
01:05:13,910 --> 01:05:11,119
that may be their way of thinking i

1871
01:05:16,390 --> 01:05:13,920
don't know that that's the most benign

1872
01:05:17,190 --> 01:05:16,400
interpretation on government and that's

1873
01:05:19,750 --> 01:05:17,200
the one that

1874
01:05:21,109 --> 01:05:19,760
i'm inclined to go with you know the the

1875
01:05:24,230 --> 01:05:21,119
the um

1876
01:05:27,510 --> 01:05:24,240
uh the the the least malevolent

1877
01:05:29,430 --> 01:05:27,520
interpretation is to assume that our um

1878
01:05:31,270 --> 01:05:29,440
defense and intelligence services simply

1879
01:05:31,990 --> 01:05:31,280
don't like admitting that there is this

1880
01:05:34,470 --> 01:05:32,000
advanced

1881
01:05:35,349 --> 01:05:34,480
technology that can kick their butt and

1882
01:05:38,309 --> 01:05:35,359
you know

1883
01:05:40,230 --> 01:05:38,319
i i hope that that's the case the

1884
01:05:41,990 --> 01:05:40,240
difficulty i have is that there is a

1885
01:05:45,910 --> 01:05:42,000
preponderance of evidence

1886
01:05:48,069 --> 01:05:45,920
i think that needs to be investigated

1887
01:05:49,109 --> 01:05:48,079
and this is where i came to in my book

1888
01:05:50,950 --> 01:05:49,119
i'm not saying

1889
01:05:52,309 --> 01:05:50,960
categorically that i believe that this

1890
01:05:55,510 --> 01:05:52,319
is true because there's

1891
01:05:57,829 --> 01:05:55,520
always the risk of disinformation

1892
01:05:58,870 --> 01:05:57,839
but i've been told by multiple sources

1893
01:06:01,430 --> 01:05:58,880
including one

1894
01:06:03,109 --> 01:06:01,440
who went on the record nat kobets the

1895
01:06:05,990 --> 01:06:03,119
former director of science and

1896
01:06:09,349 --> 01:06:06,000
technology development for the us navy

1897
01:06:11,670 --> 01:06:09,359
that there was and is a crash

1898
01:06:13,910 --> 01:06:11,680
retrieval and back engineering program

1899
01:06:16,789 --> 01:06:13,920
for ufos

1900
01:06:19,109 --> 01:06:16,799
he just he told me flatly after many

1901
01:06:22,470 --> 01:06:19,119
weeks of conversation that he was

1902
01:06:24,630 --> 01:06:22,480
read into he was security oath briefed

1903
01:06:26,710 --> 01:06:24,640
into the special compartmented

1904
01:06:27,990 --> 01:06:26,720
intelligence of a special access program

1905
01:06:30,150 --> 01:06:28,000
that basically told him

1906
01:06:31,430 --> 01:06:30,160
all about the retrieval of alien

1907
01:06:34,069 --> 01:06:31,440
spacecraft

1908
01:06:36,549 --> 01:06:34,079
he never saw these craft for himself but

1909
01:06:36,870 --> 01:06:36,559
he was told that the u.s navy was aware

1910
01:06:41,190 --> 01:06:36,880
of

1911
01:06:43,750 --> 01:06:41,200
crash retrievals

1912
01:06:45,510 --> 01:06:43,760
and that's amazing amazing no if if

1913
01:06:47,270 --> 01:06:45,520
that's the case

1914
01:06:49,029 --> 01:06:47,280
and as well as that you've also got to

1915
01:06:50,069 --> 01:06:49,039
add to that the comments that have been

1916
01:06:52,789 --> 01:06:50,079
made by

1917
01:06:54,069 --> 01:06:52,799
louis luzondo about exotic technology

1918
01:06:57,829 --> 01:06:54,079
being recovered

1919
01:07:01,109 --> 01:06:57,839
dr eric davis who's talked about landed

1920
01:07:02,789 --> 01:07:01,119
ufos and crashed ufos

1921
01:07:05,670 --> 01:07:02,799
even christopher mellon talked about

1922
01:07:08,069 --> 01:07:05,680
recovered technology

1923
01:07:09,349 --> 01:07:08,079
which is you know doing and displaying

1924
01:07:12,630 --> 01:07:09,359
phenomenon

1925
01:07:14,470 --> 01:07:12,640
uh isotopic ratios that are not part of

1926
01:07:18,150 --> 01:07:14,480
known terrestrial

1927
01:07:19,589 --> 01:07:18,160
science there's a huge hint being

1928
01:07:21,510 --> 01:07:19,599
dropped and then you've got

1929
01:07:23,349 --> 01:07:21,520
the world's greatest newspaper the new

1930
01:07:25,109 --> 01:07:23,359
york times leslie kane and ralph

1931
01:07:27,510 --> 01:07:25,119
blumenthal's excellent story and i think

1932
01:07:30,150 --> 01:07:27,520
july last year where they

1933
01:07:32,549 --> 01:07:30,160
they basically quoted sources including

1934
01:07:34,470 --> 01:07:32,559
dr eric davis talking about

1935
01:07:36,549 --> 01:07:34,480
technology that had been recovered by

1936
01:07:37,910 --> 01:07:36,559
the united states that is not of this

1937
01:07:40,549 --> 01:07:37,920
world

1938
01:07:42,470 --> 01:07:40,559
i've independently corroborated that

1939
01:07:44,630 --> 01:07:42,480
certain congressmen and senators have

1940
01:07:47,750 --> 01:07:44,640
been briefed in the congress

1941
01:07:50,710 --> 01:07:47,760
of the u of us they've been briefed

1942
01:07:51,430 --> 01:07:50,720
into the fact that the united states has

1943
01:07:54,470 --> 01:07:51,440
recovered

1944
01:07:55,750 --> 01:07:54,480
non-human technology technology not of

1945
01:07:58,950 --> 01:07:55,760
this world

1946
01:08:02,230 --> 01:07:58,960
now if senators are being told that

1947
01:08:03,109 --> 01:08:02,240
what's the truth now this is the this is

1948
01:08:06,309 --> 01:08:03,119
the thing that i

1949
01:08:06,870 --> 01:08:06,319
i have trouble with is that um you know

1950
01:08:08,789 --> 01:08:06,880
uh

1951
01:08:09,990 --> 01:08:08,799
you know with a few notable exceptions

1952
01:08:13,270 --> 01:08:10,000
the new york times

1953
01:08:14,150 --> 01:08:13,280
brian bender tom rogan at the washington

1954
01:08:17,189 --> 01:08:14,160
times

1955
01:08:18,149 --> 01:08:17,199
washington examiner sorry you know a lot

1956
01:08:20,390 --> 01:08:18,159
of media haven't

1957
01:08:22,149 --> 01:08:20,400
really quite got their brains around yet

1958
01:08:23,510 --> 01:08:22,159
the fact that we're no longer in a

1959
01:08:26,789 --> 01:08:23,520
paradigm where

1960
01:08:29,749 --> 01:08:26,799
the reality of this phenomenon can be

1961
01:08:30,630 --> 01:08:29,759
questioned it's real you know the united

1962
01:08:32,709 --> 01:08:30,640
states

1963
01:08:33,990 --> 01:08:32,719
defense department has admitted it's

1964
01:08:35,590 --> 01:08:34,000
real

1965
01:08:37,590 --> 01:08:35,600
we're now in a new paradigm where we're

1966
01:08:40,789 --> 01:08:37,600
basically thinking okay

1967
01:08:42,149 --> 01:08:40,799
what is it now my just to

1968
01:08:43,910 --> 01:08:42,159
this is an elaborate answer to your

1969
01:08:46,149 --> 01:08:43,920
question but we were we were starting

1970
01:08:46,789 --> 01:08:46,159
off on the benign explanation that maybe

1971
01:08:50,229 --> 01:08:46,799
the um

1972
01:08:52,630 --> 01:08:50,239
the military doesn't know what this is

1973
01:08:54,309 --> 01:08:52,640
but what if they do what if they have

1974
01:08:56,789 --> 01:08:54,319
recovered craft what if there is

1975
01:08:58,470 --> 01:08:56,799
recovered technology

1976
01:09:00,470 --> 01:08:58,480
and then you look at the way that the

1977
01:09:02,950 --> 01:09:00,480
uap report starts

1978
01:09:03,669 --> 01:09:02,960
with its investigations of these 144

1979
01:09:06,870 --> 01:09:03,679
incidents

1980
01:09:10,229 --> 01:09:06,880
from the 2004 nimitz

1981
01:09:13,269 --> 01:09:10,239
incident is it just a coincidence that

1982
01:09:16,630 --> 01:09:13,279
all of the alleged crash recoveries of

1983
01:09:19,430 --> 01:09:16,640
alleged vehicles and craft occurred well

1984
01:09:21,669 --> 01:09:19,440
before that 2004 date

1985
01:09:24,070 --> 01:09:21,679
isn't it convenient that we're

1986
01:09:26,470 --> 01:09:24,080
implicitly constraining the narrative in

1987
01:09:30,149 --> 01:09:26,480
what's being put to congress

1988
01:09:33,430 --> 01:09:30,159
by looking from 2004 by not looking at

1989
01:09:35,430 --> 01:09:33,440
incidents like roswell aztec

1990
01:09:36,789 --> 01:09:35,440
del rio you know all of these alleged

1991
01:09:39,110 --> 01:09:36,799
crash recoveries

1992
01:09:40,229 --> 01:09:39,120
that allegedly took place in the 40s and

1993
01:09:43,110 --> 01:09:40,239
the 50s

1994
01:09:44,309 --> 01:09:43,120
i i literally had a um an email this

1995
01:09:48,309 --> 01:09:44,319
morning

1996
01:09:51,510 --> 01:09:48,319
from a source who uh was an aviator

1997
01:09:54,950 --> 01:09:51,520
in a part of australia who told me

1998
01:09:58,310 --> 01:09:54,960
that he was aware of

1999
01:10:00,229 --> 01:09:58,320
a retrieval of some kind of object by

2000
01:10:02,229 --> 01:10:00,239
both australian and american military

2001
01:10:05,270 --> 01:10:02,239
and huge secrecy

2002
01:10:08,149 --> 01:10:05,280
from a part of the australian outback

2003
01:10:09,830 --> 01:10:08,159
very very recently and you know there's

2004
01:10:11,990 --> 01:10:09,840
always the possibility that it's

2005
01:10:13,430 --> 01:10:12,000
russian space technology or chinese

2006
01:10:16,550 --> 01:10:13,440
space technology or

2007
01:10:18,709 --> 01:10:16,560
north korean weaponry or something but

2008
01:10:21,189 --> 01:10:18,719
it puzzled him and he wanted me to know

2009
01:10:24,630 --> 01:10:21,199
about it that there was so much secrecy

2010
01:10:25,750 --> 01:10:24,640
surrounding the issue and that whatever

2011
01:10:28,310 --> 01:10:25,760
it was

2012
01:10:30,630 --> 01:10:28,320
um australia and the u.s were operating

2013
01:10:32,950 --> 01:10:30,640
in collaboration and its recovery

2014
01:10:35,110 --> 01:10:32,960
now i'm going to chase that i'm going to

2015
01:10:37,990 --> 01:10:35,120
ask questions about it and my colleague

2016
01:10:39,350 --> 01:10:38,000
bill chalker here in australia who's

2017
01:10:42,630 --> 01:10:39,360
another prominent

2018
01:10:45,030 --> 01:10:42,640
uap ufo researcher he's aware of other

2019
01:10:48,390 --> 01:10:45,040
allegations of

2020
01:10:50,390 --> 01:10:48,400
vehicles craft that have crashed

2021
01:10:51,510 --> 01:10:50,400
in australia's outback that have been

2022
01:10:54,470 --> 01:10:51,520
recovered

2023
01:10:55,990 --> 01:10:54,480
now i'm not saying they're true but we

2024
01:10:58,070 --> 01:10:56,000
should be asking the question

2025
01:11:00,390 --> 01:10:58,080
when you've got eminent officials

2026
01:11:01,270 --> 01:11:00,400
eminent scientists basically saying it's

2027
01:11:03,910 --> 01:11:01,280
true

2028
01:11:05,350 --> 01:11:03,920
when congress is being told this is the

2029
01:11:07,510 --> 01:11:05,360
amazing thing to me

2030
01:11:09,189 --> 01:11:07,520
congress has been briefed about crash

2031
01:11:11,830 --> 01:11:09,199
recoveries

2032
01:11:12,790 --> 01:11:11,840
that's cool now your parliament your

2033
01:11:16,470 --> 01:11:12,800
congress

2034
01:11:18,070 --> 01:11:16,480
is being told that the united states is

2035
01:11:18,950 --> 01:11:18,080
in possession of recovered alien

2036
01:11:22,550 --> 01:11:18,960
technology

2037
01:11:24,149 --> 01:11:22,560
i know that for a fact why isn't that

2038
01:11:26,550 --> 01:11:24,159
why isn't that being discussed in

2039
01:11:27,669 --> 01:11:26,560
mainstream newspapers and i think part

2040
01:11:30,149 --> 01:11:27,679
of the issue is not

2041
01:11:31,270 --> 01:11:30,159
it's not that people are being shut down

2042
01:11:32,630 --> 01:11:31,280
there's not men in black

2043
01:11:35,110 --> 01:11:32,640
sitting in the editor's office saying

2044
01:11:37,510 --> 01:11:35,120
you're not going to do this story so

2045
01:11:39,590 --> 01:11:37,520
it's literally it's this taboo it's the

2046
01:11:41,830 --> 01:11:39,600
ridicule that's attached they can't

2047
01:11:43,350 --> 01:11:41,840
quite get their heads around the reality

2048
01:11:44,950 --> 01:11:43,360
of this subject matter

2049
01:11:47,350 --> 01:11:44,960
and it's going to take a while i think i

2050
01:11:52,470 --> 01:11:47,360
think there's a slow realization

2051
01:11:55,750 --> 01:11:52,480
occurring that we are now in a new era

2052
01:11:59,030 --> 01:11:55,760
i i agree irene you had a question

2053
01:12:02,149 --> 01:11:59,040
oh yeah the elephant in the room is um

2054
01:12:04,950 --> 01:12:02,159
we have these um sightings over the

2055
01:12:06,790 --> 01:12:04,960
decades at least with case studies that

2056
01:12:09,270 --> 01:12:06,800
people like valet have done

2057
01:12:11,750 --> 01:12:09,280
we know that socorro there were entities

2058
01:12:13,990 --> 01:12:11,760
associated with the landed craft

2059
01:12:15,110 --> 01:12:14,000
um also i think the valencia incident is

2060
01:12:18,229 --> 01:12:15,120
that how you pronounce it

2061
01:12:20,950 --> 01:12:18,239
in france similar similar case um

2062
01:12:23,669 --> 01:12:20,960
so we recovering craft where are the

2063
01:12:25,750 --> 01:12:23,679
bodies uh where are the pilots actually

2064
01:12:28,149 --> 01:12:25,760
are their bodies what do you know about

2065
01:12:31,510 --> 01:12:28,159
that ross

2066
01:12:34,149 --> 01:12:31,520
um well certainly i i know that

2067
01:12:35,990 --> 01:12:34,159
um nat coverts the director of science

2068
01:12:36,310 --> 01:12:36,000
and technology and development when he

2069
01:12:40,310 --> 01:12:36,320
was

2070
01:12:42,630 --> 01:12:40,320
read into the crash retrieval program

2071
01:12:43,750 --> 01:12:42,640
he told me for what it's worth that he

2072
01:12:46,870 --> 01:12:43,760
was told that

2073
01:12:51,350 --> 01:12:46,880
alien bodies had been recovered

2074
01:12:54,229 --> 01:12:51,360
period i've since spoken to

2075
01:12:55,590 --> 01:12:54,239
other people who purport to be in the

2076
01:12:57,910 --> 01:12:55,600
program

2077
01:12:59,430 --> 01:12:57,920
and i also spoke to another guy who was

2078
01:13:01,750 --> 01:12:59,440
invited

2079
01:13:03,270 --> 01:13:01,760
onto the program but elected not to for

2080
01:13:06,470 --> 01:13:03,280
personal reasons

2081
01:13:10,630 --> 01:13:06,480
and they all talk about

2082
01:13:12,950 --> 01:13:10,640
bodies or life forms

2083
01:13:13,990 --> 01:13:12,960
and then you've got the extraordinary

2084
01:13:17,030 --> 01:13:14,000
claims of

2085
01:13:18,470 --> 01:13:17,040
tom de long who i was initially poo

2086
01:13:20,709 --> 01:13:18,480
pooing when i first read about it i

2087
01:13:24,229 --> 01:13:20,719
first heard him i think on um

2088
01:13:24,550 --> 01:13:24,239
either tom rogan or um josiah joe rogan

2089
01:13:27,910 --> 01:13:24,560
or

2090
01:13:29,270 --> 01:13:27,920
um one of the other podcasts i think

2091
01:13:30,790 --> 01:13:29,280
rojas

2092
01:13:32,550 --> 01:13:30,800
and you know he was making these

2093
01:13:33,350 --> 01:13:32,560
incredible claims that he was talking to

2094
01:13:35,189 --> 01:13:33,360
a general

2095
01:13:37,350 --> 01:13:35,199
an unnamed general who was telling him

2096
01:13:39,110 --> 01:13:37,360
about a recovered life form

2097
01:13:41,350 --> 01:13:39,120
that had been recovered during the cold

2098
01:13:44,229 --> 01:13:41,360
war and i thought this is

2099
01:13:45,270 --> 01:13:44,239
crazy you know this is a rubbish

2100
01:13:47,590 --> 01:13:45,280
and um

2101
01:13:49,830 --> 01:13:47,600
it was really interesting because again

2102
01:13:52,070 --> 01:13:49,840
i think the media has completely

2103
01:13:53,669 --> 01:13:52,080
missed the boat here in terms of the

2104
01:13:56,790 --> 01:13:53,679
significance of the

2105
01:13:59,350 --> 01:13:56,800
the gru the russian gru

2106
01:14:02,310 --> 01:13:59,360
hack which is which procured the emails

2107
01:14:04,390 --> 01:14:02,320
the confidential emails of john podesta

2108
01:14:06,790 --> 01:14:04,400
and other people who were on the

2109
01:14:08,630 --> 01:14:06,800
democratic national convention database

2110
01:14:11,270 --> 01:14:08,640
the dnc database

2111
01:14:12,229 --> 01:14:11,280
and in those emails it shows very very

2112
01:14:15,669 --> 01:14:12,239
clearly that

2113
01:14:18,390 --> 01:14:15,679
tom delong was talking um

2114
01:14:19,350 --> 01:14:18,400
to general neil mccaslin general michael

2115
01:14:21,510 --> 01:14:19,360
carey

2116
01:14:22,950 --> 01:14:21,520
serving members of the u.s air force

2117
01:14:25,110 --> 01:14:22,960
space command

2118
01:14:26,790 --> 01:14:25,120
um he was talking to robert weiss or

2119
01:14:29,669 --> 01:14:26,800
vice i've forgotten how you pronounce it

2120
01:14:32,229 --> 01:14:29,679
of lockheed martin skunk works

2121
01:14:34,310 --> 01:14:32,239
and he was talking to john podesta the

2122
01:14:35,590 --> 01:14:34,320
former chief of staff to barack obama

2123
01:14:37,590 --> 01:14:35,600
president obama

2124
01:14:39,270 --> 01:14:37,600
a former senior advisor to bill clinton

2125
01:14:40,630 --> 01:14:39,280
and the campaign manager for hillary

2126
01:14:42,229 --> 01:14:40,640
clinton who was

2127
01:14:44,310 --> 01:14:42,239
i think a lot of people expected to

2128
01:14:47,830 --> 01:14:44,320
become the president in

2129
01:14:50,870 --> 01:14:47,840
2016. and uh

2130
01:14:53,990 --> 01:14:50,880
it's clear from what tom has told

2131
01:14:55,750 --> 01:14:54,000
numerous interviewers that that he was

2132
01:14:57,189 --> 01:14:55,760
told that the united states had

2133
01:14:59,669 --> 01:14:57,199
recovered

2134
01:15:01,430 --> 01:14:59,679
a life form as well as craft and that

2135
01:15:02,550 --> 01:15:01,440
they were involved in a back engineering

2136
01:15:04,390 --> 01:15:02,560
project

2137
01:15:06,390 --> 01:15:04,400
now maybe the reason they told tom is

2138
01:15:06,950 --> 01:15:06,400
because they hoped that if it if ever

2139
01:15:10,070 --> 01:15:06,960
did

2140
01:15:11,590 --> 01:15:10,080
leak tom delong was a punk rocker and

2141
01:15:13,270 --> 01:15:11,600
you know punk rockers are known to be a

2142
01:15:14,790 --> 01:15:13,280
bit crazy so nobody would ever take him

2143
01:15:16,790 --> 01:15:14,800
seriously but um

2144
01:15:19,189 --> 01:15:16,800
i don't think anybody ever expected that

2145
01:15:20,070 --> 01:15:19,199
the wikileaks would procure the dnc

2146
01:15:24,149 --> 01:15:20,080
emails

2147
01:15:25,270 --> 01:15:24,159
and that's a real game changer and those

2148
01:15:25,910 --> 01:15:25,280
are the kind of things that as a

2149
01:15:28,149 --> 01:15:25,920
journalist

2150
01:15:29,110 --> 01:15:28,159
people like me anchor on to because i

2151
01:15:32,470 --> 01:15:29,120
can go

2152
01:15:34,070 --> 01:15:32,480
okay so gee wow tom was talking to

2153
01:15:36,870 --> 01:15:34,080
general neil mccasland

2154
01:15:38,470 --> 01:15:36,880
you know wow he really was talking to

2155
01:15:41,750 --> 01:15:38,480
michael kerry

2156
01:15:44,790 --> 01:15:41,760
the foreword to

2157
01:15:45,990 --> 01:15:44,800
one of his books how interesting what

2158
01:15:47,910 --> 01:15:46,000
the hell's going on here

2159
01:15:50,229 --> 01:15:47,920
why were these big time generals talking

2160
01:15:52,390 --> 01:15:50,239
to tom de long

2161
01:15:53,510 --> 01:15:52,400
were they really talking about

2162
01:15:55,910 --> 01:15:53,520
disclosure

2163
01:15:57,510 --> 01:15:55,920
which is what the emails refer to what

2164
01:16:01,189 --> 01:15:57,520
were they going to

2165
01:16:04,070 --> 01:16:01,199
disclose and for the life of me i'm just

2166
01:16:06,070 --> 01:16:04,080
puzzled as the level of in-curiosity by

2167
01:16:08,630 --> 01:16:06,080
many in the mainstream media

2168
01:16:09,990 --> 01:16:08,640
who don't ask what the hell were those

2169
01:16:11,830 --> 01:16:10,000
emails about

2170
01:16:13,110 --> 01:16:11,840
why hasn't hillary clinton been door

2171
01:16:16,550 --> 01:16:13,120
stopped and asked

2172
01:16:18,149 --> 01:16:16,560
mrs clinton we know that your

2173
01:16:19,750 --> 01:16:18,159
campaign manager john podesta was

2174
01:16:21,430 --> 01:16:19,760
involved in conversations with tom

2175
01:16:22,550 --> 01:16:21,440
delong general michael carey general

2176
01:16:24,470 --> 01:16:22,560
neil mccasland

2177
01:16:25,990 --> 01:16:24,480
robert weiss of lockheed martin skunk

2178
01:16:27,590 --> 01:16:26,000
works and they were talking about

2179
01:16:29,350 --> 01:16:27,600
disclosure what was it that you were

2180
01:16:30,709 --> 01:16:29,360
planning on disclosing in january of

2181
01:16:33,669 --> 01:16:30,719
2017

2182
01:16:34,870 --> 01:16:33,679
as president what were you going to talk

2183
01:16:39,430 --> 01:16:34,880
about

2184
01:16:42,390 --> 01:16:39,440
inference from the emails

2185
01:16:44,229 --> 01:16:42,400
why is it that the american media were

2186
01:16:46,950 --> 01:16:44,239
willing to be led by the nose

2187
01:16:48,790 --> 01:16:46,960
into a war in iraq on the false claim of

2188
01:16:51,430 --> 01:16:48,800
weapons of mass destruction

2189
01:16:53,110 --> 01:16:51,440
they didn't do their homework and test

2190
01:16:54,790 --> 01:16:53,120
the veracity of the claims that were

2191
01:16:56,630 --> 01:16:54,800
being made by

2192
01:16:58,470 --> 01:16:56,640
general colin powell and other people in

2193
01:17:00,709 --> 01:16:58,480
the white house at the time

2194
01:17:02,390 --> 01:17:00,719
they were so willing to believe and

2195
01:17:04,870 --> 01:17:02,400
glibly willing to believe

2196
01:17:07,110 --> 01:17:04,880
that claim but when people are making

2197
01:17:10,149 --> 01:17:07,120
incredible claims about recovered

2198
01:17:12,229 --> 01:17:10,159
alien technology they just go

2199
01:17:13,510 --> 01:17:12,239
oh yeah let's just move on yeah sorry

2200
01:17:14,950 --> 01:17:13,520
what's the next question

2201
01:17:16,950 --> 01:17:14,960
i'm sorry i just don't i don't

2202
01:17:17,590 --> 01:17:16,960
understand it it's just crazy and i

2203
01:17:19,350 --> 01:17:17,600
think

2204
01:17:20,790 --> 01:17:19,360
a lot of media and are starting to go

2205
01:17:23,990 --> 01:17:20,800
you know what

2206
01:17:25,590 --> 01:17:24,000
i had an american journal from cnn very

2207
01:17:27,110 --> 01:17:25,600
well known journo from cnn

2208
01:17:29,030 --> 01:17:27,120
actually rang me the other day and said

2209
01:17:30,229 --> 01:17:29,040
oh russ can i just pick your brains

2210
01:17:31,830 --> 01:17:30,239
and i took them through what i've just

2211
01:17:33,430 --> 01:17:31,840
taken you through and i said look you

2212
01:17:34,709 --> 01:17:33,440
know when you get the next opportunity

2213
01:17:36,390 --> 01:17:34,719
to have

2214
01:17:38,630 --> 01:17:36,400
this official or this official or this

2215
01:17:40,470 --> 01:17:38,640
official on why don't you corner them

2216
01:17:42,070 --> 01:17:40,480
with these questions

2217
01:17:43,669 --> 01:17:42,080
and he says you know man i might i might

2218
01:17:45,669 --> 01:17:43,679
do that i went great

2219
01:17:47,110 --> 01:17:45,679
go for it and i think there's that

2220
01:17:50,070 --> 01:17:47,120
change occurring

2221
01:17:52,070 --> 01:17:50,080
in the media there's a realization the

2222
01:17:53,669 --> 01:17:52,080
media is like an old battleship

2223
01:17:55,669 --> 01:17:53,679
coming up the harbour you know it can

2224
01:17:58,870 --> 01:17:55,679
scare the hell out of the natives

2225
01:18:00,550 --> 01:17:58,880
but it takes a long time to turn

2226
01:18:02,470 --> 01:18:00,560
and so when it's got a direction of

2227
01:18:03,750 --> 01:18:02,480
course you might give the order to

2228
01:18:05,510 --> 01:18:03,760
change course

2229
01:18:07,350 --> 01:18:05,520
but it takes a bloody long time for it

2230
01:18:08,870 --> 01:18:07,360
to shift and that's what's happening at

2231
01:18:11,030 --> 01:18:08,880
the moment the media's

2232
01:18:11,990 --> 01:18:11,040
been chugging along for the last 60

2233
01:18:13,910 --> 01:18:12,000
years

2234
01:18:16,390 --> 01:18:13,920
maintaining what my friend steve bassett

2235
01:18:19,030 --> 01:18:16,400
would call the truth embargo

2236
01:18:21,189 --> 01:18:19,040
basically glibly accepting the blind

2237
01:18:22,950 --> 01:18:21,199
lies and deceit of the united states

2238
01:18:24,470 --> 01:18:22,960
department of defense and the u.s air

2239
01:18:26,470 --> 01:18:24,480
force in particular

2240
01:18:28,470 --> 01:18:26,480
and now all of a sudden because of a

2241
01:18:30,390 --> 01:18:28,480
double backflip with pike by the

2242
01:18:32,229 --> 01:18:30,400
pentagon which is basically admitted it

2243
01:18:34,790 --> 01:18:32,239
has been bullshitting all these years

2244
01:18:35,590 --> 01:18:34,800
we've now got a situation where the

2245
01:18:37,189 --> 01:18:35,600
media is going

2246
01:18:38,630 --> 01:18:37,199
whoa whoa hang on a moment do we have to

2247
01:18:40,149 --> 01:18:38,640
change course here what's going on who's

2248
01:18:42,149 --> 01:18:40,159
that guy over there saying that

2249
01:18:44,229 --> 01:18:42,159
you know they're now thinking that just

2250
01:18:45,669 --> 01:18:44,239
maybe they need to actually consider the

2251
01:18:47,350 --> 01:18:45,679
possibility that

2252
01:18:49,910 --> 01:18:47,360
things aren't quite as they've been led

2253
01:18:51,110 --> 01:18:49,920
to believe the last 60 years

2254
01:18:53,189 --> 01:18:51,120
and that's where it's going to start

2255
01:18:56,470 --> 01:18:53,199
getting interesting right

2256
01:18:58,149 --> 01:18:56,480
you had to follow up uh irene uh yeah

2257
01:19:00,470 --> 01:18:58,159
the follow-up is um

2258
01:19:01,910 --> 01:19:00,480
if assuming that there are people in the

2259
01:19:05,030 --> 01:19:01,920
know about recovered

2260
01:19:06,149 --> 01:19:05,040
pilots of these intelligently controlled

2261
01:19:09,189 --> 01:19:06,159
vehicles

2262
01:19:12,630 --> 01:19:09,199
um how do they measure up to what

2263
01:19:13,510 --> 01:19:12,640
um experiences and abductees have

2264
01:19:16,149 --> 01:19:13,520
reported

2265
01:19:18,149 --> 01:19:16,159
and what do you say about the interest

2266
01:19:19,189 --> 01:19:18,159
that some of the agencies are showing in

2267
01:19:21,030 --> 01:19:19,199
people like

2268
01:19:23,669 --> 01:19:21,040
um chris bledsoe and some of the other

2269
01:19:24,790 --> 01:19:23,679
experiences

2270
01:19:26,390 --> 01:19:24,800
i'm really happy you asked me that

2271
01:19:27,750 --> 01:19:26,400
question irene because a lot of people

2272
01:19:29,590 --> 01:19:27,760
think because of some inadvertent

2273
01:19:31,030 --> 01:19:29,600
comments i made a week or two ago in one

2274
01:19:33,270 --> 01:19:31,040
interview that i'm dismissive of

2275
01:19:34,790 --> 01:19:33,280
abductees i'm not

2276
01:19:36,229 --> 01:19:34,800
i just don't know what to think about

2277
01:19:37,189 --> 01:19:36,239
them there was a there was a turning

2278
01:19:40,310 --> 01:19:37,199
point for me

2279
01:19:42,709 --> 01:19:40,320
in my research where i

2280
01:19:44,310 --> 01:19:42,719
i was introduced to a former very senior

2281
01:19:45,830 --> 01:19:44,320
official of the fbi

2282
01:19:47,750 --> 01:19:45,840
the american federal bureau of

2283
01:19:50,550 --> 01:19:47,760
investigation a top cop

2284
01:19:52,470 --> 01:19:50,560
if you like this guy was a really big

2285
01:19:55,189 --> 01:19:52,480
kahuna in the fbi

2286
01:19:55,830 --> 01:19:55,199
and he's now retired and he told me he

2287
01:19:58,550 --> 01:19:55,840
had a

2288
01:20:00,470 --> 01:19:58,560
uh an extraterrestrial or a visitation

2289
01:20:02,390 --> 01:20:00,480
of some kind with a life form that

2290
01:20:04,390 --> 01:20:02,400
manifested in his bedroom with him and

2291
01:20:06,709 --> 01:20:04,400
his wife and that he'd seen another

2292
01:20:10,550 --> 01:20:06,719
object hovering in his backyard

2293
01:20:12,629 --> 01:20:10,560
and he's not crazy you know he's he's

2294
01:20:14,870 --> 01:20:12,639
seeing stuff um

2295
01:20:16,790 --> 01:20:14,880
i can talk for example about my friend

2296
01:20:17,990 --> 01:20:16,800
bob hastings robert hastings who's done

2297
01:20:21,030 --> 01:20:18,000
the phenomenal work

2298
01:20:24,229 --> 01:20:21,040
on ufos and nukes and then he

2299
01:20:26,070 --> 01:20:24,239
and bob jacobs dr bob jacobs

2300
01:20:27,430 --> 01:20:26,080
both came out with a more recent book

2301
01:20:29,510 --> 01:20:27,440
where they've talked about

2302
01:20:32,709 --> 01:20:29,520
and acknowledged that they've had these

2303
01:20:34,470 --> 01:20:32,719
weird encounters with

2304
01:20:36,709 --> 01:20:34,480
some kind of sentient intelligence

2305
01:20:38,790 --> 01:20:36,719
that's engaging with them

2306
01:20:40,470 --> 01:20:38,800
i'm never going to poo poo that because

2307
01:20:43,990 --> 01:20:40,480
i find them to be people of

2308
01:20:45,990 --> 01:20:44,000
high credibility they've basically

2309
01:20:47,830 --> 01:20:46,000
been corroborated i mean for example

2310
01:20:50,709 --> 01:20:47,840
there was an attempt to try and blacken

2311
01:20:51,510 --> 01:20:50,719
bob jacobs name by suggesting that the

2312
01:20:53,669 --> 01:20:51,520
the object

2313
01:20:54,550 --> 01:20:53,679
the flying saucer that he saw knocking

2314
01:20:58,629 --> 01:20:54,560
out a

2315
01:21:01,510 --> 01:20:58,639
an atlas missile dummy nuclear warhead

2316
01:21:02,070 --> 01:21:01,520
in early 1960s he was told it never

2317
01:21:03,669 --> 01:21:02,080
happened

2318
01:21:05,510 --> 01:21:03,679
you know and it was all rubbish and he

2319
01:21:07,750 --> 01:21:05,520
never saw what he saw and then to his

2320
01:21:09,830 --> 01:21:07,760
great credit his commanding officer

2321
01:21:12,149 --> 01:21:09,840
florence mansman now a professor at

2322
01:21:13,110 --> 01:21:12,159
stanford came out and backed bob jacobs

2323
01:21:15,590 --> 01:21:13,120
story

2324
01:21:17,350 --> 01:21:15,600
so i i i've gone through and looked at

2325
01:21:18,709 --> 01:21:17,360
what these people say and so when they

2326
01:21:21,910 --> 01:21:18,719
start saying to me look

2327
01:21:23,030 --> 01:21:21,920
you know we've also seen entities we've

2328
01:21:24,870 --> 01:21:23,040
seen

2329
01:21:27,750 --> 01:21:24,880
life forms and people start talking to

2330
01:21:30,709 --> 01:21:27,760
me too about um

2331
01:21:32,149 --> 01:21:30,719
encounters uh i i'm not going to dismiss

2332
01:21:33,270 --> 01:21:32,159
it out of hand

2333
01:21:35,430 --> 01:21:33,280
just because it makes me feel

2334
01:21:38,310 --> 01:21:35,440
uncomfortable um

2335
01:21:38,870 --> 01:21:38,320
you know whatever it is it's a phenomena

2336
01:21:42,229 --> 01:21:38,880
that

2337
01:21:45,669 --> 01:21:42,239
deserves investigation and i've

2338
01:21:47,430 --> 01:21:45,679
spoken privately to some of my many

2339
01:21:48,950 --> 01:21:47,440
sources on this issue who've told me

2340
01:21:51,590 --> 01:21:48,960
that we should be looking at

2341
01:21:53,350 --> 01:21:51,600
that phenomenon and we also should be

2342
01:21:55,030 --> 01:21:53,360
looking very very seriously at

2343
01:21:56,870 --> 01:21:55,040
cattle mutilations which is another

2344
01:21:59,350 --> 01:21:56,880
issue that i actually used

2345
01:22:01,590 --> 01:21:59,360
part of my documentary to look at i i

2346
01:22:03,590 --> 01:22:01,600
did a whole sequence on

2347
01:22:04,870 --> 01:22:03,600
a farmer and his wife in a remote part

2348
01:22:06,709 --> 01:22:04,880
of australia who

2349
01:22:09,110 --> 01:22:06,719
have been seeing strange lights over

2350
01:22:12,550 --> 01:22:09,120
their property and then finding

2351
01:22:14,229 --> 01:22:12,560
extraordinary uh cuts and incisions

2352
01:22:14,950 --> 01:22:14,239
being made into their animals that are

2353
01:22:18,629 --> 01:22:14,960
actually

2354
01:22:20,870 --> 01:22:18,639
not possible for a veterinarian now

2355
01:22:21,910 --> 01:22:20,880
since i made that film i've spoken to a

2356
01:22:23,590 --> 01:22:21,920
um

2357
01:22:25,430 --> 01:22:23,600
a veterinarian who operates in a

2358
01:22:25,750 --> 01:22:25,440
different part of australia who's told

2359
01:22:27,990 --> 01:22:25,760
me

2360
01:22:29,030 --> 01:22:28,000
just the most mind-blowing things that

2361
01:22:32,790 --> 01:22:29,040
he's seen

2362
01:22:36,070 --> 01:22:32,800
in animals that that had their entire

2363
01:22:38,550 --> 01:22:36,080
um reproductive organs cored out

2364
01:22:41,189 --> 01:22:38,560
with no visible damage to the adjoining

2365
01:22:42,310 --> 01:22:41,199
organs or the anuses or their rectums

2366
01:22:47,270 --> 01:22:42,320
removed

2367
01:22:50,390 --> 01:22:47,280
just extraordinary and no blood i mean

2368
01:22:51,669 --> 01:22:50,400
i've now spoken i think to six vets from

2369
01:22:53,910 --> 01:22:51,679
all over australia who saw the

2370
01:22:55,510 --> 01:22:53,920
documentary that i made

2371
01:22:57,350 --> 01:22:55,520
and they were encouraging me on and

2372
01:22:59,110 --> 01:22:57,360
saying look i don't want to go public

2373
01:23:01,750 --> 01:22:59,120
because it could damage my business if i

2374
01:23:04,950 --> 01:23:01,760
spoke about this but it's real

2375
01:23:07,430 --> 01:23:04,960
and so like a lot of journalists

2376
01:23:09,270 --> 01:23:07,440
you know i'm very used to the phenomenon

2377
01:23:10,709 --> 01:23:09,280
of people talking to me on a background

2378
01:23:11,750 --> 01:23:10,719
basis and wanting to talk to me

2379
01:23:14,709 --> 01:23:11,760
anonymously but

2380
01:23:16,709 --> 01:23:14,719
sharing what they know and i can match

2381
01:23:20,070 --> 01:23:16,719
it up with what other people are saying

2382
01:23:21,910 --> 01:23:20,080
and it does make you think i mean i

2383
01:23:22,790 --> 01:23:21,920
can't reach a conclusion about either

2384
01:23:26,870 --> 01:23:22,800
abductions

2385
01:23:30,390 --> 01:23:26,880
or experiences or cattle mutilations

2386
01:23:31,750 --> 01:23:30,400
but um they're a paranormal phenomena to

2387
01:23:34,149 --> 01:23:31,760
the extent that they are

2388
01:23:36,310 --> 01:23:34,159
unusual they're extraordinary but we

2389
01:23:39,990 --> 01:23:36,320
shouldn't discount them out of hand

2390
01:23:42,470 --> 01:23:40,000
uh we shouldn't say they're untrue

2391
01:23:44,550 --> 01:23:42,480
and i certainly don't adopt the view of

2392
01:23:46,390 --> 01:23:44,560
some scientists who are not

2393
01:23:48,310 --> 01:23:46,400
they're not the gatekeepers of science

2394
01:23:49,990 --> 01:23:48,320
just coming back to our friend

2395
01:23:52,149 --> 01:23:50,000
the scientist who said that it's

2396
01:23:55,830 --> 01:23:52,159
definitely not alien

2397
01:23:58,950 --> 01:23:55,840
um just because some senior scientist

2398
01:24:00,629 --> 01:23:58,960
says that you know these things should

2399
01:24:02,550 --> 01:24:00,639
be discounted because i don't

2400
01:24:04,310 --> 01:24:02,560
think it's true therefore it isn't

2401
01:24:07,030 --> 01:24:04,320
that's not science

2402
01:24:08,790 --> 01:24:07,040
that's not analysis you know the whole

2403
01:24:12,310 --> 01:24:08,800
the whole thing about the scientific

2404
01:24:13,990 --> 01:24:12,320
method is you attempt to reproduce the

2405
01:24:16,709 --> 01:24:14,000
phenomenon you can experiment

2406
01:24:18,070 --> 01:24:16,719
and verify that phenomenon you can test

2407
01:24:23,110 --> 01:24:18,080
it

2408
01:24:24,870 --> 01:24:23,120
that's the whole principle that we've

2409
01:24:26,950 --> 01:24:24,880
enjoyed since the enlightenment of

2410
01:24:29,430 --> 01:24:26,960
modern science is to make observations

2411
01:24:32,629 --> 01:24:29,440
to verify them and to check them and to

2412
01:24:35,350 --> 01:24:32,639
you know to develop a hypothesis and

2413
01:24:37,030 --> 01:24:35,360
it's not good science to just

2414
01:24:40,070 --> 01:24:37,040
arbitrarily assert

2415
01:24:42,390 --> 01:24:40,080
it can't be therefore it isn't my

2416
01:24:43,910 --> 01:24:42,400
attribution to leslie kane for that she

2417
01:24:45,990 --> 01:24:43,920
writes about this in her book her

2418
01:24:48,550 --> 01:24:46,000
excellent book on ufos

2419
01:24:50,470 --> 01:24:48,560
she's equally critical of science those

2420
01:24:51,990 --> 01:24:50,480
in science who purport to say

2421
01:24:55,110 --> 01:24:52,000
i don't think it's true therefore it's

2422
01:24:55,910 --> 01:24:55,120
not yeah that's not science i don't care

2423
01:24:58,950 --> 01:24:55,920
whether it's an

2424
01:25:00,390 --> 01:24:58,960
imminent astrophysicist or a biologist

2425
01:25:01,510 --> 01:25:00,400
who believes that they know what they're

2426
01:25:03,430 --> 01:25:01,520
talking about

2427
01:25:04,950 --> 01:25:03,440
it's not good science and if they were

2428
01:25:05,590 --> 01:25:04,960
really put on the spot and properly

2429
01:25:08,470 --> 01:25:05,600
questioned

2430
01:25:09,669 --> 01:25:08,480
well how can you possibly say that and

2431
01:25:11,270 --> 01:25:09,679
in in this case

2432
01:25:13,590 --> 01:25:11,280
it's not good science for me as a

2433
01:25:15,910 --> 01:25:13,600
journalist to discount phenomena just

2434
01:25:19,669 --> 01:25:15,920
because it makes me feel uncomfortable

2435
01:25:21,430 --> 01:25:19,679
um there are strange stranger things in

2436
01:25:22,550 --> 01:25:21,440
this heaven and earth horatio than you

2437
01:25:24,870 --> 01:25:22,560
and i have dreamed of and

2438
01:25:25,990 --> 01:25:24,880
apologies to will shakespeare there

2439
01:25:28,149 --> 01:25:26,000
right

2440
01:25:30,149 --> 01:25:28,159
you know there's uh there's there's so

2441
01:25:33,750 --> 01:25:30,159
many times where

2442
01:25:36,070 --> 01:25:33,760
um you know you look at the way this is

2443
01:25:37,189 --> 01:25:36,080
talked about when it comes to science

2444
01:25:40,390 --> 01:25:37,199
and and

2445
01:25:42,790 --> 01:25:40,400
they're the way they treat this

2446
01:25:44,470 --> 01:25:42,800
that makes you realize and it was

2447
01:25:45,669 --> 01:25:44,480
something that came up in last week's

2448
01:25:49,510 --> 01:25:45,679
interview

2449
01:25:52,950 --> 01:25:49,520
that for as long as there's been human

2450
01:25:54,550 --> 01:25:52,960
uh societies and science

2451
01:25:56,790 --> 01:25:54,560
the scientists always think that they

2452
01:25:59,990 --> 01:25:56,800
know everything there is to know

2453
01:26:02,629 --> 01:26:00,000
and you know that there comes the ego

2454
01:26:04,709 --> 01:26:02,639
and and and when things change you know

2455
01:26:08,470 --> 01:26:04,719
i mean science is supposed to be

2456
01:26:09,990 --> 01:26:08,480
uh open to change and open to new ideas

2457
01:26:12,229 --> 01:26:10,000
but a lot of times you know people will

2458
01:26:13,990 --> 01:26:12,239
just say like that attitude that

2459
01:26:15,830 --> 01:26:14,000
lawrence krauss had about this

2460
01:26:17,669 --> 01:26:15,840
well if it was out there i should know

2461
01:26:19,590 --> 01:26:17,679
about it i would know about it already

2462
01:26:21,110 --> 01:26:19,600
you know that that type of thing yeah i

2463
01:26:23,270 --> 01:26:21,120
mean one of the most common arguments i

2464
01:26:25,430 --> 01:26:23,280
get from friends of mine who are

2465
01:26:27,110 --> 01:26:25,440
in physics is they say oh you know you

2466
01:26:28,790 --> 01:26:27,120
can't go faster than light it's one of

2467
01:26:30,470 --> 01:26:28,800
the constants

2468
01:26:32,149 --> 01:26:30,480
you know einstein proved you can't go

2469
01:26:35,669 --> 01:26:32,159
faster than light therefore

2470
01:26:37,590 --> 01:26:35,679
interstellar travel isn't possible and

2471
01:26:39,270 --> 01:26:37,600
i i take great delight in pointing out

2472
01:26:41,750 --> 01:26:39,280
to them the albucia

2473
01:26:43,590 --> 01:26:41,760
drive the you know the the essentially

2474
01:26:46,229 --> 01:26:43,600
the principles of a space-time bubble

2475
01:26:48,149 --> 01:26:46,239
being created in front of an object and

2476
01:26:49,669 --> 01:26:48,159
uh it's compressing space-time in front

2477
01:26:50,950 --> 01:26:49,679
of that bubble and then it's expanding

2478
01:26:53,830 --> 01:26:50,960
it behind it

2479
01:26:55,830 --> 01:26:53,840
and it's theoretically possible with the

2480
01:26:56,470 --> 01:26:55,840
right energy and propulsion systems to

2481
01:26:58,550 --> 01:26:56,480
actually

2482
01:27:00,950 --> 01:26:58,560
distort space-time and to

2483
01:27:03,510 --> 01:27:00,960
instantaneously cross the universe

2484
01:27:04,950 --> 01:27:03,520
and you know the concept of a star

2485
01:27:08,229 --> 01:27:04,960
trekian warp drive

2486
01:27:11,350 --> 01:27:08,239
really is not just sci-fi fantasy

2487
01:27:13,750 --> 01:27:11,360
it's scientifically plausible now and

2488
01:27:16,790 --> 01:27:13,760
quantum physics is suggesting that a lot

2489
01:27:17,030 --> 01:27:16,800
of what previously used to be described

2490
01:27:19,910 --> 01:27:17,040
as

2491
01:27:20,870 --> 01:27:19,920
sort of paranormal nonsense is is

2492
01:27:23,270 --> 01:27:20,880
increasingly

2493
01:27:24,709 --> 01:27:23,280
more and more plausible you know in

2494
01:27:27,830 --> 01:27:24,719
quantum physics you can

2495
01:27:29,270 --> 01:27:27,840
you can have a situation where

2496
01:27:30,870 --> 01:27:29,280
it's possible to contemplate the

2497
01:27:32,310 --> 01:27:30,880
possibility of faster than light

2498
01:27:35,750 --> 01:27:32,320
communication

2499
01:27:37,430 --> 01:27:35,760
because of particles interacting with

2500
01:27:40,950 --> 01:27:37,440
each other in a way that is

2501
01:27:42,790 --> 01:27:40,960
apparently not understood yet but

2502
01:27:44,790 --> 01:27:42,800
you know they are instantaneously

2503
01:27:46,229 --> 01:27:44,800
communicating even though they're in

2504
01:27:48,470 --> 01:27:46,239
different they can tangle my heart so

2505
01:27:50,310 --> 01:27:48,480
the yeah quantum entanglement

2506
01:27:53,510 --> 01:27:50,320
and and i i find that fascinating you

2507
01:27:55,350 --> 01:27:53,520
know the the big lesson of science is um

2508
01:27:57,189 --> 01:27:55,360
we're gathering new information all the

2509
01:27:59,510 --> 01:27:57,199
time and things that were previously

2510
01:28:01,750 --> 01:27:59,520
thought to be

2511
01:28:04,229 --> 01:28:01,760
impossible or increasingly considered to

2512
01:28:06,470 --> 01:28:04,239
be possible

2513
01:28:08,149 --> 01:28:06,480
right right where i know we're out of

2514
01:28:09,669 --> 01:28:08,159
you have another thing going on

2515
01:28:11,350 --> 01:28:09,679
in just a little bit here i know we're

2516
01:28:12,790 --> 01:28:11,360
running out of time but i would like for

2517
01:28:13,669 --> 01:28:12,800
you if you could answer this chat

2518
01:28:16,149 --> 01:28:13,679
question

2519
01:28:16,870 --> 01:28:16,159
and that is what is your procession

2520
01:28:19,270 --> 01:28:16,880
perception

2521
01:28:20,709 --> 01:28:19,280
of the australian government's position

2522
01:28:22,229 --> 01:28:20,719
on uap

2523
01:28:24,149 --> 01:28:22,239
i don't think they have one i mean i

2524
01:28:26,149 --> 01:28:24,159
i've spoken to people at

2525
01:28:27,910 --> 01:28:26,159
a high level in defense departments and

2526
01:28:29,750 --> 01:28:27,920
ministerial officers and ministers

2527
01:28:32,229 --> 01:28:29,760
themselves

2528
01:28:33,110 --> 01:28:32,239
and that i don't think it registers a

2529
01:28:35,510 --> 01:28:33,120
blip

2530
01:28:36,870 --> 01:28:35,520
i do know that there are people at a

2531
01:28:39,910 --> 01:28:36,880
high level in our defence and

2532
01:28:42,070 --> 01:28:39,920
intelligence services who are aware of

2533
01:28:44,629 --> 01:28:42,080
the sharing of intelligence under the

2534
01:28:46,870 --> 01:28:44,639
five eyes alliance where

2535
01:28:48,070 --> 01:28:46,880
they were amused and interested to see

2536
01:28:50,310 --> 01:28:48,080
that the americans are

2537
01:28:51,669 --> 01:28:50,320
actively monitoring uap they're

2538
01:28:53,350 --> 01:28:51,679
monitoring the phenomena on their

2539
01:28:56,149 --> 01:28:53,360
intelligence it's one of the issues that

2540
01:28:58,310 --> 01:28:56,159
they take note of

2541
01:29:00,550 --> 01:28:58,320
but it's not something that i'm told

2542
01:29:01,590 --> 01:29:00,560
australia is actively monitoring we

2543
01:29:03,990 --> 01:29:01,600
don't have the

2544
01:29:06,870 --> 01:29:04,000
level of air force investigation that

2545
01:29:08,629 --> 01:29:06,880
took place back in the 1970s when

2546
01:29:09,990 --> 01:29:08,639
there was in fact as there was in

2547
01:29:11,830 --> 01:29:10,000
america a very active

2548
01:29:13,110 --> 01:29:11,840
investigation by the air force into

2549
01:29:16,229 --> 01:29:13,120
every sighting incident

2550
01:29:18,629 --> 01:29:16,239
and right back to the era where

2551
01:29:19,750 --> 01:29:18,639
australia was with the brits testing

2552
01:29:23,510 --> 01:29:19,760
nuclear weapons

2553
01:29:25,590 --> 01:29:23,520
in south australia and also testing icbm

2554
01:29:27,750 --> 01:29:25,600
rocket technology in a place called

2555
01:29:29,750 --> 01:29:27,760
warmer

2556
01:29:31,990 --> 01:29:29,760
you know there were sightings going way

2557
01:29:32,229 --> 01:29:32,000
back then and they were tracked on radar

2558
01:29:34,070 --> 01:29:32,239
at

2559
01:29:35,750 --> 01:29:34,080
thousands of miles an hour and there

2560
01:29:37,830 --> 01:29:35,760
were reports written

2561
01:29:38,950 --> 01:29:37,840
by our air force investigating this

2562
01:29:41,430 --> 01:29:38,960
phenomena

2563
01:29:42,709 --> 01:29:41,440
that was sent on to the us air force for

2564
01:29:45,669 --> 01:29:42,719
collation

2565
01:29:46,390 --> 01:29:45,679
um but no i'm i'm told that there is no

2566
01:29:49,110 --> 01:29:46,400
active

2567
01:29:50,550 --> 01:29:49,120
uh uap investigation going on in

2568
01:29:52,550 --> 01:29:50,560
australia but

2569
01:29:54,390 --> 01:29:52,560
it's funny i've i've had a few calls i i

2570
01:29:55,350 --> 01:29:54,400
can tell you there's one very senior

2571
01:29:58,149 --> 01:29:55,360
minister

2572
01:30:00,470 --> 01:29:58,159
in uh australia's government uh who

2573
01:30:03,590 --> 01:30:00,480
contacted me in the wake of

2574
01:30:07,510 --> 01:30:03,600
my ufo story my phenomenon

2575
01:30:09,030 --> 01:30:07,520
documentary and he um he said to me look

2576
01:30:11,270 --> 01:30:09,040
i would never go on the record about it

2577
01:30:14,870 --> 01:30:11,280
ross but i i do want you to know that

2578
01:30:15,830 --> 01:30:14,880
i saw a ufo once and um it's interesting

2579
01:30:17,669 --> 01:30:15,840
because

2580
01:30:19,270 --> 01:30:17,679
you know he's frightened of speaking

2581
01:30:20,070 --> 01:30:19,280
publicly about it because he knows he'll

2582
01:30:23,270 --> 01:30:20,080
get rid by

2583
01:30:25,270 --> 01:30:23,280
his colleagues but um

2584
01:30:26,950 --> 01:30:25,280
i said i took the opportunity to ask him

2585
01:30:28,310 --> 01:30:26,960
i said you know

2586
01:30:30,870 --> 01:30:28,320
as far as you know is there any

2587
01:30:32,830 --> 01:30:30,880
monitoring or um awareness of this issue

2588
01:30:34,709 --> 01:30:32,840
and he went

2589
01:30:37,030 --> 01:30:34,719
no

2590
01:30:38,709 --> 01:30:37,040
how about that well thank you so much

2591
01:30:40,550 --> 01:30:38,719
and once more about your book and where

2592
01:30:44,149 --> 01:30:40,560
can someone find that

2593
01:30:44,629 --> 01:30:44,159
uh in plain sight uh a an investigation

2594
01:30:47,270 --> 01:30:44,639
into

2595
01:30:47,990 --> 01:30:47,280
ufos and impossible science is available

2596
01:30:51,110 --> 01:30:48,000
at the moment

2597
01:30:52,070 --> 01:30:51,120
in print in australia only it's coming

2598
01:30:55,510 --> 01:30:52,080
out in america

2599
01:30:57,590 --> 01:30:55,520
in october i don't know why uh

2600
01:30:59,830 --> 01:30:57,600
harpercollins internationally decided to

2601
01:31:02,950 --> 01:30:59,840
delay publication in the u.s but

2602
01:31:03,430 --> 01:31:02,960
i'm told it is available on kindle and

2603
01:31:06,390 --> 01:31:03,440
um

2604
01:31:07,030 --> 01:31:06,400
audiobooks in the u.s at the moment but

2605
01:31:09,110 --> 01:31:07,040
of course

2606
01:31:11,189 --> 01:31:09,120
everybody should have a copy and print

2607
01:31:14,470 --> 01:31:11,199
by their bedside table

2608
01:31:16,790 --> 01:31:14,480
um and that'll be coming out in

2609
01:31:18,229 --> 01:31:16,800
october i think in england it's coming

2610
01:31:20,570 --> 01:31:18,239
out in a couple of weeks

2611
01:31:22,229 --> 01:31:20,580
in mid-august and um

2612
01:31:26,910 --> 01:31:22,239
[Music]

2613
01:31:29,510 --> 01:31:26,920
i will be posting uh on my website

2614
01:31:33,270 --> 01:31:29,520
www.in plain sight

2615
01:31:35,430 --> 01:31:33,280
hyphen book dot com i'll post some links

2616
01:31:36,310 --> 01:31:35,440
that show where you can buy it in the us

2617
01:31:38,229 --> 01:31:36,320
at a discount

2618
01:31:39,590 --> 01:31:38,239
and also in australia in the uk to

2619
01:31:41,669 --> 01:31:39,600
discount

2620
01:31:43,350 --> 01:31:41,679
excellent ross i hope you'll consider

2621
01:31:44,470 --> 01:31:43,360
coming back on the show someday it was a

2622
01:31:47,110 --> 01:31:44,480
fascinating

2623
01:31:48,790 --> 01:31:47,120
uh talk i really really enjoyed it i

2624
01:31:50,550 --> 01:31:48,800
loved it too it's nice to be able to

2625
01:31:52,709 --> 01:31:50,560
talk to you and your audience thanks

2626
01:31:54,629 --> 01:31:52,719
for the opportunity all right thank you

2627
01:31:57,990 --> 01:31:54,639
very much you take care

2628
01:32:00,149 --> 01:31:58,000
you too all right cheers cheers uh irene

2629
01:32:01,910 --> 01:32:00,159
thank you so much for actually you are

2630
01:32:04,550 --> 01:32:01,920
the one who uh connected me with

2631
01:32:07,030 --> 01:32:04,560
with roscoe thank you so much my

2632
01:32:09,510 --> 01:32:07,040
pleasure martin and i just want to say

2633
01:32:11,430 --> 01:32:09,520
it's the perfect christmas present uh

2634
01:32:14,709 --> 01:32:11,440
for any of your

2635
01:32:16,470 --> 01:32:14,719
skeptical relatives and friends

2636
01:32:17,750 --> 01:32:16,480
that's right that's right all right

2637
01:32:21,030 --> 01:32:17,760
irene take care

2638
01:32:23,270 --> 01:32:21,040
thank you thank you martin bye

2639
01:32:24,310 --> 01:32:23,280
bye now all right everyone so we'll be

2640
01:32:26,950 --> 01:32:24,320
back next week

2641
01:32:27,669 --> 01:32:26,960
and uh i have to get a confirmation from

2642
01:32:29,830 --> 01:32:27,679
the guest

2643
01:32:30,950 --> 01:32:29,840
i don't have it but we'll definitely be

2644
01:32:32,870 --> 01:32:30,960
back next week

2645
01:32:45,600 --> 01:32:32,880
and remember to keep your eyes to the